Psychology and Spirituality: Ego, Personality, Mind, Mental Illness, Mentality

[Kathrin]

One has to figure out how to be themSelfs regardless. Like a fearlessness... or at least acception of otherness. Or maybe just ignorance of other's intentions. Lately, I notice a different feel to my day when I change my inner perspective back to self-support, instead of monitoring the outside or others or even others' expectations. Definitely, being on guard doesn't bring the true results. Eventually, I'll to have let that go. Until then I'll juggle with both perspectives to make it from here to there.

[Kathrin]

Chat anyone? http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/chat/blab.php

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

I just wrote a beautiful reply but this page keeps throwing me out when I need too long to type. Instead of gathering all those beautiful words again, I'll just say: Contrast is a potent thing. God expands with every of our thoughts. The tuned-in thoughts build the foundation for lasting future creations. The other ones provide grounds for further exploration. It's all good. Oh, and words are just markers of a direction of thought, towards or from God.

I had mentioned this some time ago in another thread and have been exploring the significance of this observation since.

We live in two entirely differing worlds. The one is our natural experience as a species on a planet, breathing air and surviving from moment to moment by the function of a natural system. The other is our thinking about things.

If you would like to see this contrast at work, the next time you're in the shower have the water course over your head. Feel the stream of it moving through your hair, 'identify' with the temperature you feel, fix your attention on the waters movement across your face as you move to change it's location.

Attempt to do this as an experience-only focus.. Now, watch the thoughts as they attach to this experience, watch your mind put into words the events as they occur. Watch yourself as you attempt to formulate the experience into a format that's explainable to both yourself and to others.

In the moments when you're experiencing this as an experience-only flow of natural-stimuli.. you should find that no thoughts exist. And when the mind enters-in with it's complex descriptive chatter you'll loose contact with the clean immediacy of this natural experience. You can not remain fully focused on both at the same time.

The natural experience itself is the language of nature and the manor in which nature tends to focus. While the 'thoughts' about the experience reflects the general thought-related world of our culturalized imagination.

Nature doesn't do what our minds tend to do. Nature doesn't describe itself in this way. If you fully tune into the 'experience' for a moment you may actually forget who you historically are for a brief period. Our mind spends its time actively describing our experience while the experience itself is quite separate.

So why would god be expanded by our thoughts about things? ..when our thoughts about things are not as direct as that of natures presence and amazingly complex interactions. Our thoughts will always lag behind actual events, and will smudge those events due to our limited reach as a thought-eccentric species.

[FallingLeaves]

I felt like putting this somewhere because I'm in a mood today, but was stalled as to where. But this seems the perfect place. Tao Te Ching chapter 71: (I've edited it to remove the intentional ambiguities in the source text)

Knowing vs lack of knowing
It is better, lack of knowing
Knowing, is like a disease.

In the end only when the disease is sick
Appropriate lack of the disease happens.
Sages lack the disease
It happened the disease was sick.

Appropriately lack of the disease happens.

[Kathrin]

There is more, beyond the individual's thoughts and the eternal Now. It's a mechanism. Every person thinks independantly, but is also one expression, one complex conglomerate of God's thoughts. As an indivual, a person, one is not only God, but somewhat separate. Every thought though, that this person thinks creates a new gestalt which lives on. Nothing ever ceases to exist. It only falls back into an existence of optionality. Thoughts which are continued, added to, built on, being entertained, gather energy and densify. Until they reach a critical "mass" and become flesh and bones. God is Love is Source is All and expands through our thoughts into brand new creations of all kinds. A human's mind is a copy of God's mind. We are free to think whatever we like. Essentially, there are two poles to this thinking: To or from the Origin which is God. If one can manage to think in tune her/his reality shows up with matching creations. Our thinking is partially based on observation and judgments. These observations lead to preferences and decisions. And those are the foundations for the creations of God. Without our thoughts there'd be no New. There'd be only the eternal Om. God's hum. But, this hum can not not create. So, the World had to become. And it is born out of God's mind. We are God's work. Our minds too. Nothing ever ends. Or begins. It's like a perpetual mechanism. Beauty!

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

There is more, beyond the individual's thoughts and the eternal Now. It's a mechanism. Every person thinks independantly, but is also one expression, one complex conglomerate of God's thoughts. As an indivual, a person, one is not only God, but somewhat separate. Every thought though, that this person thinks creates a new gestalt which lives on. Nothing ever ceases to exist. It only falls back into an existence of optionality. Thoughts which are continued, added to, built on, being entertained, gather energy and densify. Until they reach a critical "mass" and become flesh and bones. God is Love is Source is All and expands through our thoughts into brand new creations of all kinds. A human's mind is a copy of God's mind. We are free to think whatever we like. Essentially, there are two poles to this thinking: To or from the Origin which is God. If one can manage to think in tune her/his reality shows up with matching creations. Our thinking is partially based on observation and judgments. These observations lead to preferences and decisions. And those are the foundations for the creations of God. Without our thoughts there'd be no New. There'd be only the eternal Om. God's hum. But, this hum can not not create. So, the World had to become. And it is born out of God's mind. We are God's work. Our minds too. Nothing ever ends. Or begins. It's like a perpetual mechanism. Beauty!

This is all very correct. Nice.

[Kathrin]

How nice to find agreement. Just a lovely thing :)

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by organic born

I had mentioned this some time ago in another thread and have been exploring the significance of this observation since.

We live in two entirely differing worlds. The one is our natural experience as a species on a planet, breathing air and surviving from moment to moment by the function of a natural system. The other is our thinking about things.

If you would like to see this contrast at work, the next time you're in the shower have the water course over your head. Feel the stream of it moving through your hair, 'identify' with the temperature you feel, fix your attention on the waters movement across your face as you move to change it's location.

Attempt to do this as an experience-only focus.. Now, watch the thoughts as they attach to this experience, watch your mind put into words the events as they occur. Watch yourself as you attempt to formulate the experience into a format that's explainable to both yourself and to others.

In the moments when you're experiencing this as an experience-only flow of natural-stimuli.. you should find that no thoughts exist. And when the mind enters-in with it's complex descriptive chatter you'll loose contact with the clean immediacy of this natural experience. You can not remain fully focused on both at the same time.

The natural experience itself is the language of nature and the manor in which nature tends to focus. While the 'thoughts' about the experience reflects the general thought-related world of our culturalized imagination.

Nature doesn't do what our minds tend to do. Nature doesn't describe itself in this way. If you fully tune into the 'experience' for a moment you may actually forget who you historically are for a brief period. Our mind spends its time actively describing our experience while the experience itself is quite separate.

So why would god be expanded by our thoughts about things? ..when our thoughts about things are not as direct as that of natures presence and amazingly complex interactions. Our thoughts will always lag behind actual events, and will smudge those events due to our limited reach as a thought-eccentric species.

all very true but there is actually more to it... in addition to the words in my head I've got a bunch of 'images' and 'feelings' in my body that 'color' my life. This was very hard to even see let alone start to change... but it is all part of the 'knowing' of my self and my life. the images and feelings are kind of a foundation for whatever my thoughts are... so changing the thoughts is only the tip of the iceburg for me...

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

There is more, beyond the individual's thoughts and the eternal Now. It's a mechanism. Every person thinks independantly, but is also one expression, one complex conglomerate of God's thoughts. As an indivual, a person, one is not only God, but somewhat separate. Every thought though, that this person thinks creates a new gestalt which lives on. Nothing ever ceases to exist. It only falls back into an existence of optionality. Thoughts which are continued, added to, built on, being entertained, gather energy and densify. Until they reach a critical "mass" and become flesh and bones. God is Love is Source is All and expands through our thoughts into brand new creations of all kinds. A human's mind is a copy of God's mind. We are free to think whatever we like. Essentially, there are two poles to this thinking: To or from the Origin which is God. If one can manage to think in tune her/his reality shows up with matching creations. Our thinking is partially based on observation and judgments. These observations lead to preferences and decisions. And those are the foundations for the creations of God. Without our thoughts there'd be no New. There'd be only the eternal Om. God's hum. But, this hum can not not create. So, the World had to become. And it is born out of God's mind. We are God's work. Our minds too. Nothing ever ends. Or begins. It's like a perpetual mechanism. Beauty!

Or so you think.. :)

What you just wrote is how we humans tend to entertain ourselves. We like to feel like we're creating something akin to a designer reality and then structure our thoughts to align with such beliefs. I assure you this is pure fantasy.

What we humans create relies on a stable environment of physical stability from which nature has patiently created. We may change things on the surface but the principles remain the same. We only address the way in which we "experience" our reality, while reality itself remains stable. You may believe what you will, and create what you want but the weeds that grow along side the road will still grow using the principles that have existed for billions of years. Water will still evaporate and fall as rain and the plants and animals will still benefit from this cycle.

It's the height of folly that we should suggest that what we belief will make the slightest lick of difference in relation to anything else aside from our 'perceptional' interaction with our surroundings. The biological principals of the surroundings itself remain stable.

If you want a true challenge, one that actually makes a difference in relation to yourself and the physical world you now find yourself in, try tuning into the rhythms of nature as they already exist. Nature will not change, nor would you want it to, as a result of our fantasies. Your body still needs to do what it does in order to keep you steadily breathing from one breath to the next.

As we dial-in to the reality of how nature steadily creates this complex experience of physical unfolding we'll easily find that there's little to no need for fantasy.

To dial-into nature as the genius creator of this amazing experience of physical presence is to finally "awaken" to ourselves as a present and persistent participant.

Nature doesn't need us, nor does what we 'think' make a bit of difference in terms of how nature goes about doing what it does. A designer reality is only relevant to the person who's thinking it, and should a group of people buy into the concepts of such mentalized projections then it's only relevant to the boundaries of that group as well.

When we awaken from such dreaming it all goes away and the rhythms of nature becomes apparent in a participatory way.

[Kathrin]

Earth is an independant being, as every individual or being. Nature is more than Earth. There is a rythm, an exchange, a breathing between species, entities, beings. Shared breath, individual breath, nothing is isolated. Physicality is just a part of reality. There's more. Once you've experienced Nature's reply to your thoughts, you know, that there is interaction. You know, your thoughts create. Earth has thoughts. Everything thinks. Everyone, every being, every concept or idea thinks. People's thoughts are powerful. I guess because of Free Will. Must have to do with the ability to choose between hellish or heavenly thoughts, along a broad spectrum. Realizing this ability and choice definitely makes an aware, reasonable person. That's my experience.