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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #71  
Old 21-05-2020, 06:48 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
This is a good explanation of the techniques of Vedanta and the various approaches (non-dualist, qualified monoism, dualist).

https://youtu.be/AxKYprDDE7c?t=1459

Here's the point where Neo-Vedanta is addressed.

https://youtu.be/AxKYprDDE7c?t=3134

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Thanks for the link. Sarvapriya Nanda is one of my favourites!

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  #72  
Old 21-05-2020, 07:43 PM
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I just stumbled across this blog titled "True Nonduality And Neo-Advaita—Moving Beyond A Cognitive Realization"

It's a very long but very thorough examination on the very topic of this thread.

https://liveanddare.com/neo-advaita/
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  #73  
Old 22-05-2020, 12:01 AM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I just stumbled across this blog titled "True Nonduality And Neo-Advaita—Moving Beyond A Cognitive Realization"

https://liveanddare.com/neo-advaita/
Great blog-presentation of the topic, Guy. The only (but very subsantial, IMO) quibble I have with it stems from its the title: "True Nonduality..." - whether or not something is 'true' or how 'true' something is a matter of opinion.

I disagree with many people who think, feel and proclaim that they are 'true' (all are one in 'Christ') 'Christians', for example (which also pertains in the case of those who imagine they are and so purport to be 'true' 'Advaitians' IMO) because I think they fundamentally miss-understand how conflict, contention, etc. - the 'drama' in 'the world' which requires one learn to make discriminating choices if one is to become a successful psychospiritual navigator of the One Life's creative Flow - how this functionally serves the evolutionary developmental process of 'young' souls along the way to their 'maturing' to become completely integral (integrated with The Flow of Life) Beings.

I therefore 'see' what the blog describes as being no more than an 'argument' between 'flag-bearing' philosophical factions (the 'flag' being 'Nondualism) for 'we are the top floor of king's castle' 'supremacy'.

I realize that the 'issue' I raise is outside of the scope of this thread and I am not looking to discuss it further here. I feel it is important enough to mention here. however, because it is the invisible 'elephant' in the 'room', 'invisible' because what is 'True' is (illegitimately, IMO) presumed to be in it.
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  #74  
Old 22-05-2020, 01:08 AM
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Traditional would have been a better choice of words and what I would have used instead of true had I authored the blog.

My understanding is there's Advaita Vedanta (unqualified non-dualism) and Vishishtadvaita (qualified non-dualism) which are the origins of Hindu non-dualism.

Then there's Neo-Advaita which that blog addresses and Neo-Vedanta which is basically Vivekananda's approach among other contemporaries of his. Neo-Vedanta is basically Advaita Vedanta in that it does adhere to practice as paramount and the four Yogas as the basis of practice. I think it's more flexible as to the hierarchy of the various Yogas and also portrays itself as more of a universal "religion" open to adherents of all faiths. At least that's my take.

EDIT: I don't think so-called Neo-Vedantists refer to themselves as such. They consider themselves Advaita Vedantists. Just for clarification I don't consider myself any of the above nor a Christian or anything else. I really am just a simple guy and on a journey of exploration. Nothing more and nothing less.

Oh, that blog uses Modern Vedanta instead of Neo-Vedanta and it's on the second page of the presentation.
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  #75  
Old 22-05-2020, 12:23 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Traditional would have been a better choice of words and what I would have used instead of true had I authored the blog.

My understanding is there's Advaita Vedanta (unqualified non-dualism) and Vishishtadvaita (qualified non-dualism) which are the origins of Hindu non-dualism.

Then there's Neo-Advaita which that blog addresses and Neo-Vedanta which is basically Vivekananda's approach among other contemporaries of his. Neo-Vedanta is basically Advaita Vedanta in that it does adhere to practice as paramount and the four Yogas as the basis of practice. I think it's more flexible as to the hierarchy of the various Yogas and also portrays itself as more of a universal "religion" open to adherents of all faiths. At least that's my take.

EDIT: I don't think so-called Neo-Vedantists refer to themselves as such. They consider themselves Advaita Vedantists. Just for clarification I don't consider myself any of the above nor a Christian or anything else. I really am just a simple guy and on a journey of exploration. Nothing more and nothing less.

Oh, that blog uses Modern Vedanta instead of Neo-Vedanta and it's on the second page of the presentation.
I have no 'quibble' with what you say here. Especially in light of our planet's and humanity's current crisis (crux = cross-roads) I think it is well past time for all so-called 'religions' (as well as so-called 'modern' philosophies) to be updated so as to take into account and integrally include the info (especially the info on psychological, sociological, and soul development) that's been garnered and collated in the last several hundred years.

Buddhism (which relegates soul-development to inconsequentiality) as well as philosophy in The Gita were 'compiled' 2500+ years ago. The Upanishads date to well before that. Christianity, which gives sociological integration and soul-development more central importance dates back 2100 years. 'We' are (collectively) 'aware' of a lot more now - sheesh!
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  #76  
Old 22-05-2020, 01:52 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I don't think so-called Neo-Vedantists refer to themselves as such.

Yes, and as far as I can see, it’s the same for so-called Neo Advaitins.

The term was originally applied to the post Ramana teachers such as H. W. L. Poonja and subsequently Andrew Cohen and other students. And there is perhaps some validity in its use there as these were modified Advaita Vedanta teachings. But now the term is used indiscriminately to cover basically any teaching which does not agree with or apply traditional Vedanta methodology.

This is an error (or at best, lazy) since many current speakers/teachers (who might be labeled Neo Advaita) are grounded in (among other things) Buddhism/Zen and Taoism (also Sufism, Christian mysticism etc.) They present an inclusive, non-sectarian form of nonduality which often draws on the essential core of the different traditions. They don't set themselves up as Advaita teachers as such so there is no basis on which to call them Neo Advaita.

Also, the term itself has become (knowingly) pejorative - no modern nondualists refer to themselves as Neo Advaita.
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  #77  
Old 22-05-2020, 05:34 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Yes, and as far as I can see, it’s the same for so-called Neo Advaitins.

The term was originally applied to the post Ramana teachers such as H. W. L. Poonja and subsequently Andrew Cohen and other students. And there is perhaps some validity in its use there as these were modified Advaita Vedanta teachings. But now the term is used indiscriminately to cover basically any teaching which does not agree with or apply traditional Vedanta methodology.

This is an error (or at best, lazy) since many current speakers/teachers (who might be labeled Neo Advaita) are grounded in (among other things) Buddhism/Zen and Taoism (also Sufism, Christian mysticism etc.) They present an inclusive, non-sectarian form of nonduality which often draws on the essential core of the different traditions. They don't set themselves up as Advaita teachers as such so there is no basis on which to call them Neo Advaita.

Also, the term itself has become (knowingly) pejorative - no modern nondualists refer to themselves as Neo Advaita.

Its too late to change now (although Tony has). Negative sterotyping has already stuck and will continue to be used by tradition to undermine that which challenges (as is the way with tradition historically) and will not be fooled by a cosmetic name change. May as well stick with it.....with affection:)
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  #78  
Old 18-11-2020, 11:40 PM
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I have watched (and made notes on) a youtube video called Advaita: Non dual spirituality from Ancient India to our Global Age by Swami Tadatmananda from The Arsha Bodha Center.

I should first declare that I am new to non dualism and Hinduism so your feedback on this video would be most welcome. I have tried to summarise it to save you watching it (it's rather long!) but those sufficiently interested will want to better glean the info it contains by watching it directly - the link is below.

It's very comprehensive and traces the evolution of Advaita - from the ancient rishis to teachers like Shankara and Ramana Maharshi - and examines whether or not modern teachings i.e. Neo-Advaita have maintained the power and clarity of the ancient traditions from which they evolved.

He explains that Swami Vivekananda combined the tradition of Advaita Vedanta with Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's personal spiritual teachings to create the new system of Neo-Advaita. Poonja later influenced how Advaita is taught in the West i.e. through self enquiry alone (questions and answers) which is criticised for being inadequate to enlightenment.

It mentions that with Neo-Advaita, enlightenment is said to be gained by following any one of the 4 yogic practises but the criticism is that these are not sources of knowledge and can't remove ignorance on their own. All 4 yogic practises are said to be a necessary stepping stone to enlightenment.

The further criticism of Neo-Advaita is that certain prakriyas (teaching methods) have either been modified or discarded that are central to Advaita Vedanta.

https://youtu.be/R9pemPIBhLE
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  #79  
Old 19-11-2020, 12:58 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliorate
I have watched (and made notes on) a youtube video called Advaita: Non dual spirituality from Ancient India to our Global Age by Swami Tadatmananda from The Arsha Bodha Center.

I should first declare that I am new to non dualism and Hinduism so your feedback on this video would be most welcome. I have tried to summarise it to save you watching it (it's rather long!) but those sufficiently interested will want to better glean the info it contains by watching it directly - the link is below.

It's very comprehensive and traces the evolution of Advaita - from the ancient rishis to teachers like Shankara and Ramana Maharshi - and examines whether or not modern teachings i.e. Neo-Advaita have maintained the power and clarity of the ancient traditions from which they evolved.

He explains that Swami Vivekananda combined the tradition of Advaita Vedanta with Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's personal spiritual teachings to create the new system of Neo-Advaita. Poonja later influenced how Advaita is taught in the West i.e. through self enquiry alone (questions and answers) which is criticised for being inadequate to enlightenment.

It mentions that with Neo-Advaita, enlightenment is said to be gained by following any one of the 4 yogic practises but the criticism is that these are not sources of knowledge and can't remove ignorance on their own. All 4 yogic practises are said to be a necessary stepping stone to enlightenment.

The further criticism of Neo-Advaita is that certain prakriyas (teaching methods) have either been modified or discarded that are central to Advaita Vedanta.

https://youtu.be/R9pemPIBhLE

I've watched that video and many others from that channel. They are high quality and very good, however on this point the good Swamiji is mistaken.

Mooji is considered the "founder" of the Neo-Advaita movement. The main feature is there's nothing to do, no path to follow, no knowledge to gain, no practice to undertake, no one to become enlightened, nothing to realize. Just be It as you already are It.

Swami Vivekananda would be considered Neo-Vedanta and firmly believed in the necessity of knowledge and practice and strongly advised practice of all four Yogas, and in fact all the monks of the Ramakrishna order are required to take them all up and seriously. Classic Advaita Vedanta. I'm currently reading a book of his writings and speeches titled "Vivekananda: The Yogas and Other Works". It's almost 1,000 pages and covers Raja, Jnana, Bhakti and Karma Yogas. I'm on the section covering Karma Yoga.

Here's a link to Vivekananda's complete works: https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i...lete_works.htm

And here's a link to Vedanta New York's YouTube channel. It's the New York branch of the Vedanta Society founded by Swami Vivekananda and Swami Sarvapriyananda is an excellent speaker! He's of the Ramakrishna order also founded by Swami Vivekananda.

https://www.youtube.com/c/VedantaNY/videos

What he was attempting to do with that bit about any one Yoga or some combination could be enough was a broad umbrella meant to serve as a universal religion where followers of other faiths could benefit from the teachings. So Bhakti-based religions like Christianity were invited while maintaining their faith and beliefs and benefit from Vedanta's teachings on Bhakti.

Last edited by JustASimpleGuy : 19-11-2020 at 01:44 AM.
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  #80  
Old 19-11-2020, 10:46 AM
ameliorate ameliorate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I've watched that video and many others from that channel. They are high quality and very good, however on this point the good Swamiji is mistaken.

Mooji is considered the "founder" of the Neo-Advaita movement. The main feature is there's nothing to do, no path to follow, no knowledge to gain, no practice to undertake, no one to become enlightened, nothing to realize. Just be It as you already are It.
Thank you for your time and detailed reply.

I find Mooji's approach of doing nothing, no knowledge to gain or to become enlightened quite astonishing! Just being yourself doesn't cut it when it comes to freeing ourselves from suffering/at the mercy of our ego. It's static - not progressive. Although we may well be connected to the divine source (Brahman), it is not enough just to think that this is so since it's not just a mental exercise i.e. there needs to be some kind of experience of this and that requires application!

The video I mentioned spoke of Mahavakya declaration of the highest truth that can lead to recognising our true non dual nature thereby freeing us from suffering 'if you can grasp and assimilate the powerful implications' and that it can't be easily/quickly gained.

I don't believe there's just one path to become enlightened i.e. attaining inner peace and contentment that never wavers - completely and utterly untouched by daily afflictions of life (e.g. mystical experiences can have a transforming effect; I have had one) but, clearly, Advaita Vedanta is a well established path for those who can follow the necessary disciplines it requires.

Thank you for the links you provided but it is just non dualism that I am currently wanting clarity on (also I'm not a subscriber to youtube else I'd watch your video!).

I am very confused about maya upon reading 'the universe, all beings and the creator are all manifestations of maya (illusion) - unreal in themselves BUT also the universe, all beings and the creator IS Brahman - these are real as Brahman. Conflicting and confusing! Any help, from members here,with making sense of this would be welcome

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