Is your mind your enemy?

[sentient]

Originally Posted by God-Like

How can anyone be unattached to any idea of 'yourself' be liberating when you have the sum of all your experiences in toe that reflect what you believe you are .

God-Like,

Your ‘self-referencing’ (?) avatar depicts you as a Native American.

Are you?

*

[swampgrl]

Duality is one hell of a marinate.

Everyone puts his or her unique concoction in the mix.

The lime's in the coconut.

[Crowzie]

Your mind is only an enemy if you cannot detach from it.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Have you ever asked yourself the question. What is it in you that regards your mind as an enemy? Could it be your mind itself that regards itself as such? Why would it do that? Just what is going on?

I used to think it was. That's what all the spiritual people told me. Now I'm learning that it's not, it's my friend. The problems that it has (anxiety, fear, shame) are not it's fault. It was forced into roles in childhood and to take on negative beliefs. Despite whatever problems come from the mind, it's intention is always to help, it just does the best it can and doesn't know any other way. It needs help, to be listened to and most of all appreciated. The answer is not to demonize the mind, but to befriend it.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Butt suggesting letting it be as it is, IS self referencing isn't it ..

No.

Okay I can understand that and agree with that to a certain extent for many a time I lose myself in certain activities .. butt one can't immerse themselves 24/7 so one finds themselves regaining or switching to a level of self awareness that is absolutely containing an idea of what they are .

Yes, that seems to be the case.

I mean certain things can be done as an activity where there is a meditative state acquired and doing the dishes and such likes can be done in a way where one just finds themselves doing them without thinking too much but there are levels of awareness that are still present and reflected otherwise one could potentially stop what they are doing because there is no attachment or reason for doing them .. why would one continue to wash the dishes if there is no self reflectance happening ..

I find that in any moment I can't stop what I'm doing.

If it rains one can strip naked, if it's hot one can put on a onesie or like you say if it rains one can open an umbrella for these are all self preferences .. Why doesn't one want to get wet in the rain if it's not ego related?

The ego perspective seems to be of the impression that 'I' did it, but actually there was a psychological reaction to circumstance as part of one universal motion.

You say again and make reference to 'we can see them as thoughts' it's this self reference that I keep talking about .. It's kinda like one minute your speaking of being immersed in what you are doing and the next you speak about what you are that knows that thoughts are fabrications of the mind .

We can see thoughts obviously and as long as there is perception of thought there is a central I. No thought, no I. Since we are behind it all, we see 'I' occur as thought.

So when you speak of fabrications of the mind you are in this present moment having an idea about yourself and what constitutes thoughts and mind .

I don't analyse it. I just notice I am aware of the thoughts. Its very obviously the case. I don't know how or why or have any explanation for it... especially when at the depth level I'm not aware of them.

If you were in this moment immersed within evaluating what constitutes mind and what are thoughts then how would you say what you say without any self reference in toe .

You say something and I just respond to it, just as I open an umbrella in the rain, but after I have stopped I will say 'I stopped' - and perhaps actually be under that impression.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I used to think it was. That's what all the spiritual people told me. Now I'm learning that it's not, it's my friend. The problems that it has (anxiety, fear, shame) are not it's fault. It was forced into roles in childhood and to take on negative beliefs. Despite whatever problems come from the mind, it's intention is always to help, it just does the best it can and doesn't know any other way. It needs help, to be listened to and most of all appreciated. The answer is not to demonize the mind, but to befriend it.

Well if that's your mind talking (What else could it be:) it would seem to have resolved the conflict referred to elswhere in this thread.

If so what does that mean for the spiritual search for you? Does it mean that the paths and practises that see the mind as a problem are not useful for you?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Gem

No.

How can it not be? You are implying / suggesting 'letting things be' from a position of your own idea about yourself and what constitutes letting things be . It's impossible to not have ideas about yourself in reflection of what you are evaluating otherwise you would not make any sense of yourself and what you are suggesting .

Originally Posted by Gem

The ego perspective seems to be of the impression that 'I' did it, but actually there was a psychological reaction to circumstance as part of one universal motion.

You are speaking as if the ego has an impression from a third person perspective, when it's the ego that has the impression that you are having an impression that you did it . You seem to distance the impression that you did it by saying how the ego gives an impression . Either way it's an idea about yourself that you have that is ego related . There really is no way around this idea about oneself in reflection of this reality unless one is absent of being aware of this reality butt on some level I AM aware of some reality and there remains an idea about oneself unless there is awareness beyond any self reflection .

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't analyse it. I just notice I am aware of the thoughts. Its very obviously the case. I don't know how or why or have any explanation for it... especially when at the depth level I'm not aware of them.

You can't notice how bright the sun is and not have already digested what the sun is and what bright means in relation to what you think you are . You don't have to have an internal debate about it, it can be evaluated in the blink of an eye



x daz x

[Gem]

Originally Posted by God-Like

How can it not be? You are implying / suggesting 'letting things be' from a position of your own idea about yourself and what constitutes letting things be . It's impossible to not have ideas about yourself in reflection of what you are evaluating otherwise you would not make any sense of yourself and what you are suggesting .

I thought the self perspective is always in resistance to things, or maybe craving after something else, so the dropping of all that resistance and craving is 'letting be' which is the same as 'letting go'. We typically find we reach a limitation in this regard though...

You are speaking as if the ego has an impression from a third person perspective, when it's the ego that has the impression that you are having an impression that you did it . You seem to distance the impression that you did it by saying how the ego gives an impression . Either way it's an idea about yourself that you have that is ego related . There really is no way around this idea about oneself in reflection of this reality unless one is absent of being aware of this reality butt on some level I AM aware of some reality and there remains an idea about oneself unless there is awareness beyond any self reflection .

In my case I see the ego in the third person and it's not a 'nice' thing. It is basically deceptive in assuming the position of me. But I'm onto it, though, and I can see it as 'not I', and I think in time it will dissolve completely. I also saw directly that which reveals my nature, so the distinction between a false sense of self and who I actually am is pretty clear to me.

You can't notice how bright the sun is and not have already digested what the sun is and what bright means in relation to what you think you are . You don't have to have an internal debate about it, it can be evaluated in the blink of an eye.

If I flash a light in your eyes, they will blink before you think about how bright it is. In the aftermath of it, your psychology will be like, oh so bright, I don't like it and so forth, so you see, the self reference only occurs after the light flashes, and continues even after the flash passes. I sometimes have an internal debate about it, and sometimes I know it but I don't actually register in any secondary way at all. If I do, I can see these thoughts as they come up, and then go away when I attend to another thing. It might seem to pertain to me, in which case I have personal reaction, which is a lot of mentality after the fact, and that's where the ego lives, in that reactive aftermath. That's how the mind's construct of self is perpetuated, always in a constant reaction, forever distracting us from the truth of what we are by keeping us in the aftermath which comes after the fact of life.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Well if that's your mind talking (What else could it be:) it would seem to have resolved the conflict referred to elswhere in this thread.

If so what does that mean for the spiritual search for you? Does it mean that the paths and practises that see the mind as a problem are not useful for you?

I take what works for me from all kinds of paths. There's lots of things I don't agree with in paths but just take what's useful to me personally. You can get a better overall picture by exploring lots of different ideas. For example if you focus on spiritual only, then you get one side but if you look at science you get more of a whole picture.

I would say befriending the mind is a key to spirituality because the turmoil that's going on in the mind keeps us away from our true self. If you want to help someone, you don't belittle them or ignore them. The mind needs help, it's been working really hard doing the best it can for us, but is suffering and needs care.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I take what works for me from all kinds of paths. There's lots of things I don't agree with in paths but just take what's useful to me personally. You can get a better overall picture by exploring lots of different ideas. For example if you focus on spiritual only, then you get one side but if you look at science you get more of a whole picture.

I would say befriending the mind is a key to spirituality because the turmoil that's going on in the mind keeps us away from our true self. If you want to help someone, you don't belittle them or ignore them. The mind needs help, it's been working really hard doing the best it can for us, but is suffering and needs care.

.

Yes I just let it do its thing, chatter away if it wants and hope its figuring where the dog has taken my other sock.