Why God (cause/absolute reality) is not modified into this universe (effect/relative

[dattaseva]

Only the cause or generator of this universe can be beyond it. From a huge lump of mud, a small pot is created by using only some of the mud. Now, the rest of the mud exists beyond the pot as its cause.

You can take this example to a certain extent only. In this example, some part of the cause is modified into the pot and the rest of the part of the cause remains. But, in the concept to be tackled [creation of the world from God], no part of the cause (God) is modified into the effect (world).

The fundamental unit of the cosmos is space, which is nothing but very subtle energy. The cause or the generator of space must not contain space in it. Even in the case of the mud and the pot, the cause may be in the effect but the effect is definitely not in the cause. That is to say, the mud may be in the pot but the pot is not in the crude lump of mud.

Therefore, even in the concept [creation of the world from God], space cannot be in its generator.

Space cannot exist anywhere before its creation; even in its cause. If space exists in its cause, then it means that space had already been created before its creation. This is an impossible point and a logical contradiction. The other impossible point is that if space is in the cause, then it means that space created space. Therefore, at any cost, space should not and cannot exist in its generator. This then means that the generator of space does not have any spatial dimensions.

Space only refers to spatial dimensions. Length, width and height are spatial dimensions and the product of these three is volume or space. Your intelligence can never imagine anything that does not have spatial dimensions. It doesn’t matter how sharp your intelligence may be or how much time you take to arrive at an intellectual conclusion—your intellect simply cannot imagine anything that does not have volume.

Therefore, the generator of this space or cosmos is always unimaginable and exists beyond the cosmos.

This is the reason for the everlasting or infinite nature of space since its generator—the boundary of this cosmos—can never be achieved by intelligence. When the intelligence itself fails, there is no possibility of the mind or senses to perceive this unimaginable boundary of the cosmos, which is the unimaginable God Himself.

God is not in the cosmos because He does not have spatial dimensions; He cannot exist in the cosmos, which is limited by spatial dimensions. Even if you say that the unimaginable God exists in the cosmos, it is of no use, because such God can never be detected even by the sharpest of intelligence. It is as good as saying that God is not in the cosmos.

Therefore, the Veda says that nothing in this cosmos is God, because nothing contains God. If something contains God, you can call it as God. If a wire contains current, you can call such a wire as the current itself. Since no imaginable item contains unimaginable God, no imaginable item can be called as God (Neti neti… Veda).

Even in the case of a human incarnation (Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, etc.) that contains God, the unimaginable God remains undetectable by intelligence, even though you call the human form as God incarnate.

The Veda (Tvadevanupravishat…) and the Gita (Manusheem tanum…) both speak about the special entry of God into the human incarnation for the purpose of preaching spiritual knowledge to human beings with the exceptional specific talent of clarifying their doubts. Such a special entry cannot be the logical entry of a cause into its effect, as seen in the modification of the mud into the pot. This special entry is based on the desire of God and not on the logical principle of entry of a worldly cause into a worldly effect.

[Jyotir]

Hello dattaseva,

So much emphasis on Neti Neti!

What about Iti Iti ?...

All This is Brahman

~ J

[dattaseva]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hello dattaseva,

So much emphasis on Neti Neti!

What about Iti Iti ?...

All This is Brahman

~ J

All this is verily Brahman. The soul is part of the whole and therefore, qualitatively the same as the whole. But this whole is just the ocean of inert, subtle cosmic energy, which is limited to spatial dimensions and perceivable to the imagination of a sharp intellectual with the help of sophisticated instruments. The Parabrahman however, is beyond all spatial dimensions and simply unimaginable. Only to this highest of the most high does the neti neti approach apply.

[peteyzen]

well said dattaseva. I see jyotirs point too, and both are right

[Miss Hepburn]

The whole post made my head spin.

I just laid back and let myself experience the love all around me.
Ah, I am much better now.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by dattaseva

Only the cause or generator of this universe can be beyond it. Space cannot exist anywhere before its creation; even in its cause. If space exists in its cause, then it means that space had already been created before its creation. This is an impossible point and a logical contradiction. The other impossible point is that if space is in the cause, then it means that space created space. Therefore, at any cost, space should not and cannot exist in its generator. This then means that the generator of space does not have any spatial dimensions.

Space only refers to spatial dimensions. Length, width and height are spatial dimensions and the product of these three is volume or space.Therefore, the generator of this space or cosmos is always unimaginable and exists beyond the cosmos.


God is not in the cosmos because He does not have spatial dimensions; He cannot exist in the cosmos, which is limited by spatial dimensions. Even if you say that the unimaginable God exists in the cosmos, it is of no use, because such God can never be detected even by the sharpest of intelligence. It is as good as saying that God is not in the cosmos.

Therefore, the Veda says that nothing in this cosmos is God, because nothing contains God. If something contains God, you can call it as God. If a wire contains current, you can call such a wire as the current itself. Since no imaginable item contains unimaginable God, no imaginable item can be called as God (Neti neti… Veda).

Even in the case of a human incarnation (Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, etc.) that contains God, the unimaginable God remains undetectable by intelligence, even though you call the human form as God incarnate.

.

dattaseva,

This line of thought bears much similarity to the idea of tsimtsum(the withdrawal of God) as understood by the Lurianic school of the Cabbala. Essentially its premise is that God brought a void within himself to create the world ex nihilo. This void can be seen as the origin of freedom....it is unique to the void.....the nothingness.....out of which God created the world. Mankind is seen to have an "ex-istence".........."ex" referring to the void which provides freedom(from God) and "istence"(or essence) the spark of love(divine blood). Both elements are indestructible.......meonic(void) and pleromic(plenitude).

[Amilius777]

I don't know. I find a more simple understanding

God who is the First Cause- Absolute; our Father- Mother is forever the same, and that is Love Itself.

Anything that has been manifested from that Cause whether it be this universe or any other universe or dimension is a portion of part of that God expressing itself as Experience. That would be what Christianity calls 'God the Son'. That is Christ, a cosmic energy that we are all part of "body of Christ". All living things Belong because they are Loved. And this part of the Godhead is forever evolving, growing, and expanding.

That is why you have an evolution in human consciousness even among mystics and masters of many religions until you come to the epoch and event of Jesus Christ which was the pinnacle of that Christ Power finally matching the very Father-Mother Person in Heaven as perfect love.

And then of course you have another portion of the Godhead which guides us and is the presence of our Mother-Father God but is also within us which is our eternal Link, Connection, awareness. Some call it the Holy Spirit, Buddha/Christ-consciousness, universal Mind, or what have you.