Deep discussions on Buddhist philosophies

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Gem

To me there seems to be a fine point of balance and as long as one is consciously aware of that fulcrum there is aware peace of mind, but it doesn't take much to disturb the poise because it is very intricate and extraordinarily subtle, and if it is disturbed too much, one loses awareness being distracted into the reactive processes that disrupt it. I consider what is called "ignorance" to be this distraction from that balance point, so you don't know the peaceful poise of the mind, and one has to re-find it and resolve to be not so easily distracted henceforth.

You raise a very interesting point regarding those who are indeed somewhat continuously established in peace of mind and yet are fully aware that "it (sometimes) doesn't take much to disturb the poise" depending on personal inclinations.

As such distractions arise to "disturb the poise", what do you personally consider the best way(s) to address a developing situation BEFORE it reaches the point where "you don't know the peaceful poise of the mind, and one has to re-find it and resolve to be not so easily distracted henceforth?"

[winter light]

Originally Posted by Gem

It seems the discussions on the suffering (if we should use that word) and the core subject of the 4 noble truths has petered out (sorry Peter, nothing personal ), and I understand it's a nuanced subject that affects us all personally and is very true to life.

Au contraire I feel I've hardly begun to suffer here

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

embracing process instead of event = flowing presence of innocence in the now continuum

Knowing where it leads = memory drawn anticipation (ego limitation)

suffering seems to be attributable to association with anticipated outcomes

***

First I guess it depends on how you define awareness and anticipation so that may be the issue here. Also there is nothing inherently wrong with knowing, memory, anticipation, or even ego limitation. These are just turns of event like clouds in the sky. To move into orbit via avoidance of mental concepts such as anticipation or ego limitation is a movement toward a kind of perdition disguised as freedom.

I thought about awareness and realized that I never cause suffering from a place of awareness. It always is when I come from either ignorance or attachment. Awareness seems rather to be an alpha and omega that accompanies all action. This is an observable and repeatable process. Why should we forsake reality in the name of some ideas about reality? So I consider awareness to be foundational. Anticipation of events that are inevitable is firm ground on which to walk.

Awareness is also undefined. I have no idea what awareness will arise in a future moment. So one can anticipate it without attachment as it has no form.

Devotion is unconditional. As are it's cousins determination and resolve. These are associated with temporal experience. We cannot move outside of time by way of a mental realm and expect to have a foundation in reality. But we can move with reality when we have awareness into the nature of things.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

@ winter light ... initially yes, memory aids and then knowing that we have known and recognising & accepting that we know not the whole, if we persist with reliance upon memory drawn imagery, the doer manifests thereby limiting and even deflecting ... delaying higher & deeper realisation by anticipating or predicting imagined outcomes. Awareness without any association with memory ... allowing the Universe to pave the way facilitates subtler revelations.

***

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

You raise a very interesting point regarding those who are indeed somewhat continuously established in peace of mind and yet are fully aware that "it (sometimes) doesn't take much to disturb the poise" depending on personal inclinations.

As such distractions arise to "disturb the poise", what do you personally consider the best way(s) to address a developing situation BEFORE it reaches the point where "you don't know the peaceful poise of the mind, and one has to re-find it and resolve to be not so easily distracted henceforth?"

I don't think there is a way make the balance less sensitive, and it seems to be a very sensitive thing by nature, but there also seems to be a way to keep conscious attention aware of the balance, though it is a subtle thing that isn't easy to notice, and being subtle, it's easy to be distracted from.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't think there is a way make the balance less sensitive, and it seems to be a very sensitive thing by nature, but there also seems to be a way to keep conscious attention aware of the balance, though it is a subtle thing that isn't easy to notice, and being subtle, it's easy to be distracted from.

Thank you for your response to my question.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

You raise a very interesting point regarding those who are indeed somewhat continuously established in peace of mind and yet are fully aware that "it (sometimes) doesn't take much to disturb the poise" depending on personal inclinations.

As such distractions arise to "disturb the poise", what do you personally consider the best way(s) to address a developing situation BEFORE it reaches the point where "you don't know the peaceful poise of the mind, and one has to re-find it and resolve to be not so easily distracted henceforth?"

Tatramajjhattata ( what a mouthful ) may interest you SW.....

'As a form of equanimity, this “being in the middle” refers to balance, to remaining centered in the middle of whatever is happening.'

[winter light]

Hi Unseeking Seeker
I hear what you are saying and understand and thank you for your concerns. We have different paths and motivations and so also the concerns are different.

My perspective is that there is no deeper. There is no higher. There is no delay. Memory and prediction exist here and now. The revelation will be in the present because everything one needs to know is here in the present. There is no need for the universe to pave the way as the way already is. The knower, the doer, the action all are one. That which moves moves and in awareness the movement knows the nature of itself.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by winter light

Hi Unseeking Seeker
I hear what you are saying and understand and thank you for your concerns. We have different paths and motivations and so also the concerns are different.

My perspective is that there is no deeper. There is no higher. There is no delay. Memory and prediction exist here and now. The revelation will be in the present because everything one needs to know is here in the present. There is no need for the universe to pave the way as the way already is. The knower, the doer, the action all are one. That which moves moves and in awareness the movement knows the nature of itself.

Just butting in here, and it's right to say attention returns to where it exists, here and now, so I'll just add that the journey isn't going from past to future or from this place to another place as such, but rather, from a grosser solidified perception to a subtler and subtler perception of 'what is' as it is, in the way it is experienced by you.


Mostly, people will say meditation is for having a wonderful experience, and indeed that is the selling point in the popular discourse, but personally I don't say that because the desire for special sorts of experience is antithetical to the practice. The practice as far as I'm concerned is keeping that balance of mind. Different experiences and states of mind will be experienced, but the practice is always to keep the stillness of disposition regardless of the sorts of experiences that happen by.


By having that stability of equanimity of the mind, the mind becomes subtler, sharper and more acutely perceptive, and hence capable of being conscious of subtler aspects of the real lived experience as it is.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

Just butting in here, and it's right to say attention returns to where it exists, here and now, so I'll just add that the journey isn't going from past to future or from this place to another place as such, but rather, from a grosser solidified perception to a subtler and subtler perception of 'what is' as it is, in the way it is experienced by you.


Mostly, people will say meditation is for having a wonderful experience, and indeed that is the selling point in the popular discourse, but personally I don't say that because the desire for special sorts of experience is antithetical to the practice. The practice as far as I'm concerned is keeping that balance of mind. Different experiences and states of mind will be experienced, but the practice is always to keep the stillness of disposition regardless of the sorts of experiences that happen by.


By having that stability of equanimity of the mind, the mind becomes subtler, sharper and more acutely perceptive, and hence capable of being conscious of subtler aspects of the real lived experience as it is.

I understand what your explaining here.

Can you give an example of sharper, subtler and more acutely perceptive to the lived experience?

How does that relate in the real world as you in this way?

What are you experiencing?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

Tatramajjhattata ( what a mouthful ) may interest you SW.....

'As a form of equanimity, this “being in the middle” refers to balance, to remaining centered in the middle of whatever is happening.'

Hi Sky123,

I have read your posts with great interest in the past and, after returning to this site after a lengthy hiatus, I find that your posts continue to be compelling.

Although I have my own technique (somewhat standard) for maintaining equanimity in the midst of chaos (car accidents, riots in India, less dramatic situations that we all experience, etc.), I am always curious to hear how other people address such situations and how they maintain equanimity in such situations.

Thanks for your response !