Has anyone here attained self realization?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The whole 'technology' and 'systems engineering' can/will 'fix' everything 'dream' (which I also embraced for many years) now strikes me as being a hubristic, and hence ill-fated, boon-doggle/seduction. Now I philosophically subscribe to what's alluded to in statements like:

Yeah, Altair - but whether people use such 'help' to 'help' them to become more generous in relation to others remains an 'open' question. IMO, that depends on what they choose to reinforce and augment in terms of what goes on 'inside' them.

Yes, agreed. We should always be skeptical about new technology. It [VR] could absolutely be used for the wrong purposes or used to lock one self up and not face reality. You are right to be critical about it, but at some point this may also become a tidal wave that won't be stopped. Humans have been glued to screens for decades now but VR has far more serious potential to give people what they want in a way where televisions, internet sites, and video games can't go.

Now here's a funny thought. What if you achieve something spiritually meaningful while locked up in your VR world? LOL.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Altair

Now here's a funny thought. What if you achieve something spiritually meaningful while locked up in your VR world? LOL.

Yup to that "What if?" "With God all things are possible" (Mark 10) and "All roads lead to Rome" come to mind. But, IMO, 'God' cannot/will not 'salvage' personal degeneracy, and all roads don't lead to someplace 'better'. It is not the 'road' that one journeys on which is determinative. It is what is going on 'inside' a person/soul/being - the 'spirit' in which one engages. whether with VR or organic reality, which is critical, I think.

Technology may function as a 'boon' or a 'bust' - it's 'effects' aren't necessarily 'good' as humanitiy's present trajectory demonstrates We are in the middle (the 'end' not far off!) of The Sixth Extinction. Hence my 'warning' against 'blindly' putting one's 'faith-eggs' in that basket.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Altair

Yes, agreed. We should always be skeptical about new technology. It [VR] could absolutely be used for the wrong purposes or used to lock one self up and not face reality. You are right to be critical about it, but at some point this may also become a tidal wave that won't be stopped. Humans have been glued to screens for decades now but VR has far more serious potential to give people what they want in a way where televisions, internet sites, and video games can't go.

Now here's a funny thought. What if you achieve something spiritually meaningful while locked up in your VR world? LOL.

Can we achieve something spiritually meaningful while locked up in an illusory existence is the 64,000 dollar question isn't it?

When I wrote what I did about my experience with VR, it was meant to be received at a much deeper level than it obviously was.

I am not a skeptical person and skepticism isn't my "default modality" however, I am always questioning those things my mind perceives as being "real" from the perspective of a "conscious observer" or a witness who is self-aware...so, is VR any more "real" than this holographic universe of an ancestor simulation we now find ourselves in?

After my experience with VR and in the attempt to understand it from the perspective of Quantum Physics, I found someone..Thomas W Campbell...the author of "My Big TOE" which I have currently started to read and it is available for free on Google play.

Here is a YouTube video of Thomas W Campbell in action:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Avfihg060

JustASimpleGuy would like Thomas W Campbell...

@NoOne

Thanks for the recommendation and I am looking for an immersive experience as opposed to a detached one because I constantly suffer with depersonalization and derealization since my Kundalini awakening and VR could be just the ticket to get me integrated again and rewire my whole neural network.

I am not sure what headset to get yet, but I want a really good quality one and so, when I amass about $500, then I will start looking.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Can we achieve something spiritually meaningful while locked up in an illusory existence is the 64,000 dollar question isn't it?

When I wrote what I did about my experience with VR, it was meant to be received at a much deeper level than it obviously was.

I am not a skeptical person and skepticism isn't my "default modality" however, I am always questioning those things my mind perceives as being "real" from the perspective of a "conscious observer" or a witness who is self-aware...so, is VR any more "real" than this holographic universe of an ancestor simulation we now find ourselves in?

Hi Shivani,

I get that. Obviously the matrix and holographic simulation metaphors write themselves. Our reality is already a giant holographic simulation and there is pretty solid scientific evidence to back it up. Just to pick one at random, the existence of rendering in objective reality would indicate the presence of some sort of quantum supercomputer, that is trying to save resources. Things don't actually exist (or collapse their wave function into actual particles and physical matter), unless somebody looks at it. That is exactly how rendering in a VR environment works. Reality is only created to the extent that someone looks at it and observes it, otherwise why waste resources rendering something nobody is currently looking at?

When you walk around in a VR environment, the next room is only rendered as you walk into it, prior to that it only existed as potentiality in the computer's memory. That is exactly how our objective reality works, it is essentially a giant holodeck a'la Star Trek.

@NoOne

Thanks for the recommendation and I am looking for an immersive experience as opposed to a detached one because I constantly suffer with depersonalization and derealization since my Kundalini awakening and VR could be just the ticket to get me integrated again and rewire my whole neural network.

I am not sure what headset to get yet, but I want a really good quality one and so, when I amass about $500, then I will start looking.

I checked current Aussie prices, the Go is 300, the Quest 650 on Amazon.

The latter is more of a gaming-focussed device and can hook up to a powerful gaming computer to do a lot more than a mobile headset is capable of. The Go however is fine for casual use, VR videos, meditation apps, exploring the world, that kind of thing.

I would not recommend the other (even pricier) devices, such as the HTC Vive, because they need a powerful gaming PC to run and won't work without it.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by kishore

U need to browse some topics on self realization and out of body expriences books like who am i book written by Shriram Sharma Acharya for more clarification on how to dissociate from ego consiousness through obes and all, try to be open to new knowledge and facts, i prefer u to read who am i book by Shriram Sharma and then u will understand some new things.

I read that book. I liked some things; I disagreed with others.

I'd say that a true path to enlightenment, self-realization, or such, shouldn't follow what a book or guru tell you "it is like", but whatever you discover yourself, inwardly.

When they tell you "this is how it is, meditate on this", they actually plant beliefs into your subconscious.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I read that book. I liked some things; I disagreed with others.

I'd say that a true path to enlightenment, self-realization, or such, shouldn't follow what a book or guru tell you "it is like", but whatever you discover yourself, inwardly.

When they tell you "this is how it is, meditate on this", they actually plant beliefs into your subconscious.

Playing the "Devil's Advocate" here (pun intended), if anybody already has all the answers within, then why do they need a teacher?

When you go in search of a Guru, part of that whole understanding is that they usually will come from a lineage of predecessor Gurus and "Ancestors" including rituals and associated text which usually has a LOT of "do whatever I say" stuff because it really needs to have those guidelines according to the sacred teachings of whatever school that Guru beings to..he/she is just an embodied representative OF it.

I don't believe that it plants beliefs in one's subconscious, because to me, that is just a polite way of saying "brainwashing" which requires little to no active, conscious effort (unless, of course, you are a brainwashed Daoist and are into Wu Wei Wu). However, a few things come to mind.

If you love to sleep in until 8am and this is getting in the way of your progress and the first thing you do is go on Social Media....you notice that a few contacts have "defriended" you and you start the day feeling depressed..

The teacher says you need to wake up at 6am and meditate for an hour, then do some exercise, then have a shower, eat breakfast , THEN check Facebook.

Would you say that the Guru is placing those beliefs into your subconscious mind when you already KNOW you should be doing more Sadhana and service....have more Self-discipline, however, because the EGO loves all of those "comfort zones" you are currently in and to shift the guilt off oneself because it is just way too painful to face, suddenly, the Guru is being "indoctrinating" and they don't need a Guru to be able to do whatever the hell they want and then get stuck spiritually because the Ego is in full control...

I see it all the time.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Shivani

The teacher says you need to wake up at 6am and meditate for an hour, then do some exercise, then have a shower, eat breakfast , THEN check Facebook.

Good advice.

Spiritual practices require sacrifice and discipline, otherwise they're going to be just hobbies that will change with the season. It has to become a second nature. Some people will undoubtedly claim they don't need that any more, so they are effectively and indirectly claiming enlightenment/self realization.

I don't think this is about ''guru's planting those beliefs in you'' ~ it's simply healthier to create direction in life and such things are measurable. Similarly, spiritual practices should improve practitioners. If anyone claims to have ''all the Love'' or ''Infinite knowledge'' than we can put that to the test. If the advice leads to an improved and measurable outcome than it's good to take it seriously.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I'd say that a true path to enlightenment, self-realization, or such, shouldn't follow what a book or guru tell you "it is like", but whatever you discover yourself, inwardly.

Triple AYE! to that Inavalan.

Now, whether they present themselves as being ‘religious’, ‘spiritual’, ‘philosophical’ or just plain ‘psychological’, all psychospiritually oriented wisdom schools and teachers list a hierarchy of goals to aim for as well as advocate specific approaches or methods whereby aspirations in said regards may be functionally actualized as part of their curriculum. Which is well and good for beginning student‑learners, but the fact is that the superordinate Realm (i.e. Reality) of Love and Joy’s Being-n-Doing is far too extensive (besides being ever‑expanding!) for there to be an ‘ultimate’ Love and Joy destiny or ‘best’ Love and Joy path (or set of paths) whereby one may get to any such imagined Love and Joy ‘mountain top’. Though many have historically (often quite productively!) ‘dutifully’ focused on and committed themselves to following ‘leader’ promulgated guidelines and implementing ‘teacher’ provided instructions as well as devoted themselves to supporting group-movements stemming therefrom with Love and Joy related objectives in mind and heart, the iconoclastic truth is that thinking, feeling, believing and acting on such basis, if such modus operandi is strictly persisted in, is bound to end up being just as limiting of the experience and expression of Love and Joy as the ‘artistic’ experience and expression of a would‑be artist would be (limited) if s/he were to persist in thinking, feeling, believing and operating on the premise that there was a ‘better than all others’ kind of art and, in that case, just one ‘best’ method or ‘best set’ of methods wherewith and whereby s/he could (or, worse, should!) relate to and engage with creative possibilities in any topical regard.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by davidsun

- the 'spirit' in which one engages. whether with VR or organic reality, which is critical, I think.

Have to say insightful, even more so if known we are in VR. No excuses. imo, it shouldn't matter.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by lemex

Have to say insightful, even more so if known we are in VR. No excuses. imo, it shouldn't matter.

..........