Truth being personal

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

when you see the truth that good/evil dichotomy is an illusion; that all your seeking for something 'good' and all your avoiding of something 'evil' avails you nothing but a permanent end to your being and in the end you see that what you WANT isn't good for you the way everyone tells you it is... you might find the impersonal truth.

Hi FallingLeaves,

An interesting take. Is it finding ones own truth and dropping what one is told is true, in a way leads to realizing an impersonal truth?

Taking on others opions or dictation which is done in telling as oppose to suggesting or sharing can come across as being personal. Judging oneself according to others or feeling judged.

These feelings seem to create a defensive atmosphere. Where as if I just simply recongnized it is his/her view point and not mine, then perhaps this helps soften the blow ( so to speak). In other word, I don't have to take it on.

Thank you

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Baile

Impersonal truth: The mystical traditions identify truth as relative versus absolute.

Whereas peoples' feelings about the importance of their individual truth, is personal. That includes me as well. I have 4 great truths I believe in: eternal soul, reincarnation, karma, and Spirit. I've had experiential depth connections with three of those. But in the end, these are personal truths, and I do have feelings for them. And I am attached to them, no question. What I understand however, is they aren't important. They are transient understandings born of my physical existence. They will be Spirit dust when I am in Spirit again. And that is the absolute truth that I recognize and bow to, the one truth to rule them all!

Hi Baile,

Can relate in the sense that this physical existence and life is very personal
The one thing that has me pause a bit is; what involves me and what does not?

Yes, affected by what may occur around me, but is it all personal? Meaning does it occur because of me or it just is happening? Having it affect me seems to make it personal. Yes, when all said and done this will all pass.

Most I find is created in my mind as being true or not, but these change. What continues with or without this person seems to hold a truth that has very little to do with this guy.

I come to respect ones own truth and recognize that it can be very personal.
Delicate ground to walk at times.

I ask about truth being impersonal because at times feel what happens in life is not always a direct attack or assistance in and of itself. More how I adjust, understand, and relate to it, which creates a personal bond of sorts.

I tend to look at both sides, but helps widen the veiw when looking at others ways of viewing life.

Some reflection on this

Thank you

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

Even the old mystics perceived the world from the confines of this reality and one would be poorly served to perceive their word as absolute.

Hi Rah nam,

It does seem in a world and existence here things change and in a way transform into something else.

Feel won't fully know until it is done.

Yes, it does seem as I perceive life this is influenced by where I am at and the understanding I have at the moment.

Thank you

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

I come to respect ones own truth and recognize that it can be very personal. Delicate ground to walk at times.

Delicate ground yes, providing there is in fact an authentic attempt to be honest and truthful in the sharing process. I'm going to tell a (hopefully) short story and then get back to that comment.

When GW Bush attacked Iraq in 2003, I had a very clear revelation while listening to him announce it on TV. I may have even said it out loud: "We have entered the era where the lie has now become truth."

I had been closely following the lead-up to that war and I know a bit about the details and particulars. For example, Bush et al continued to make greater and greater compliance demands. They played a very dishonest game of "move the goalposts," trying to make it impossible for Iraq to comply. Finally, they announced they would hold off on war ONLY if Saddam and his two sons left the country. Imagine another country demanding the U.S. president fly off to Russia!

And look where we are now, 15 years later. The lie has not only become the truth; truth is now accused of BEING THE LIE! It's fake news! I didn't say it! Even though there's video evidence I said it, and a dozen people who heard me. Yet still the lie remains, sits there in the open and in full view, unchallenged. And anyone with morals and decency who points to the lie, and who challenges the lie, is immediately called a liar.

We have entered a time in our evolution that is calling for truthful action of some kind. Something is required in order to turn this around. I will suggest that accepting all truth as relevant, just because it's personal and therefore delicate and sacred, isn't addressing a sizable portion of the deeper question in all this.

You are speaking about accepting the truth of other conscious souls like yourself. And I say yes to that, of course. And I'm asking what do we do when we encounter people who are knowingly and gleefully jumping aboard the untruth train that is chaotically and uncontrollably rocketing down the mountainside in 2018?

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Yes, affected by what may occur around me, but is it all personal? Meaning does it occur because of me or it just is happening? Having it affect me seems to make it personal. Yes, when all said and done this will all pass.

I tend to look at both sides, but helps widen the view when looking at others ways of viewing life.

Some reflection on this

What goes on around a person does not occur because of another person who observes what goes on around them. Looking at both sides is not calling events into being, but even the observer may allow what happens to continue. That is the involvement in that time in time and space and so involvement is relative. Sometimes one just finds it happens upon them. Do observers have responsibility is the question I had as I read about the interaction?

Example: A person acts in negative ways toward another person, and I am there, still I did not cause it to happen. What will pass? Sometimes it does seem like a test though.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Baile

Delicate ground yes, providing there is in fact an authentic attempt to be honest and truthful in the sharing process. I'm going to tell a (hopefully) short story and then get back to that comment.

When GW Bush attacked Iraq in 2003, I had a very clear revelation while listening to him announce it on TV. I may have even said it out loud: "We have entered the era where the lie has now become truth."

I had been closely following the lead-up to that war and I know a bit about the details and particulars. For example, Bush et al continued to make greater and greater compliance demands. They played a very dishonest game of "move the goalposts," trying to make it impossible for Iraq to comply. Finally, they announced they would hold off on war ONLY if Saddam and his two sons left the country. Imagine another country demanding the U.S. president fly off to Russia!

And look where we are now, 15 years later. The lie has not only become the truth; truth is now accused of BEING THE LIE! It's fake news! I didn't say it! Even though there's video evidence I said it, and a dozen people who heard me. Yet still the lie remains, sits there in the open and in full view, unchallenged. And anyone with morals and decency who points to the lie, and who challenges the lie, is immediately called a liar.

We have entered a time in our evolution that is calling for truthful action of some kind. Something is required in order to turn this around. I will suggest that accepting all truth as relevant, just because it's personal and therefore delicate and sacred, isn't addressing a sizable portion of the deeper question in all this.

You are speaking about accepting the truth of other conscious souls like yourself. And I say yes to that, of course. And I'm asking what do we do when we encounter people who are knowingly and gleefully jumping aboard the untruth train that is chaotically and uncontrollably rocketing down the mountainside in 2018?

What you present brings the question; Why do people believe and/or accept the lie?

Manipulating the masses is an old trick. Human history reflects many events in which the truth gets twisted or ignored to advance the agendas and power of certain groups.

This does not justify the lies, but brings into question what is really going on?

Is it that generally there are enough people who get conditioned (for lack of better term) into believing an idea? Is it fear to speak out because of potential consequences and backlash? Is it a belief that something is "our" center (such as "freedom) and anything that opposes these ideas/beliefs is a threat to us all?

I can't say for sure and am aware of the manipulations going on in many groups and set systems.

Brings to mind, if change is desired, then one has to be willing to change. At times may demand bucking the system or questioning ones own set truths.

Can wag the finger and blame this or that, but don't have to buy into it. Be informed, but be aware of what information is being given.

I see it, lies being sold as truths or used to twist the truth. I found myself yelling out at times, this is not true.

For me can only keep myself aware of it. I can't say for sure where it is all going and whether the relativity of truth becomes the excuse to create whatever one likes to fit into ones own agenda or way one thinks it should be.

It runs deep and has come to surface. The question is;What is going to be done about it?

Seems the dilemma that humans/global society is faced with.

2018, bringing truth home or living a lie? Hmmm, just has me reflect that it is not stopping me from treating others with honor, respect, and dare say, love.
Perhaps that is all one can do.

Speak up, be informed, look at both sides, perhaps in this the truth will be revealed and the lies will be leasons to be a bit more wiser.

Hang in there, it ain't over yet.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by lemex

What goes on around a person does not occur because of another person who observes what goes on around them. Looking at both sides is not calling events into being, but even the observer may allow what happens to continue. That is the involvement in that time in time and space and so involvement is relative. Sometimes one just finds it happens upon them. Do observers have responsibility is the question I had as I read about the interaction?

Example: A person acts in negative ways toward another person, and I am there, still I did not cause it to happen. What will pass? Sometimes it does seem like a test though.

Hi lemex,

Yes, at times wonder if I am being tested in some way.

Sometimes feel I don't have the power to stop it. Can yell at the person to stop.
Can physically get involved. Either way, the harm in some way has been done.

Other times it just happens, yes.

Guess it comes down what can I live with? If knowing something can be done and do nothing, can the results be lived with?

Which in a way develops a truth/honesty of its own with myself. Knowing my strength and limitations. At times challenging them in regards are they as I think they are or is there more then realize with in me?

[linen53]

To me Truth is fluid; ever changing as we experience life and as we learn new things. I can change my truth at the blink of an eye and some of my truths I carry from birth to death.

Then there is my truth vs your truth. Both are accurate; yours to you and mine to me. This is my truth about Truth.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by linen53

To me Truth is fluid; ever changing as we experience life and as we learn new things. I can change my truth at the blink of an eye and some of my truths I carry from birth to death.

Then there is my truth vs your truth. Both are accurate; yours to you and mine to me. This is my truth about Truth.

Hi linen53,

Thank you for your truth

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hello,

Was reflecting upon truth. So going with some thoughts upon this.

Seen threads on it, debates about it, and reflections upon it.

What came to mind is that truth seems to be personal.
It appears in mind in relationship to what is understood, believed, makes sense, and/or resonates.

Sure, there are some truths in relationship to cause and effect. Such as if I touch something on fire, chances are will get burned.

More looking at what appears as personal
What comes to mind is what is found to be true with in.
What touches the spirit, heart, or brings spirit to mind.
Those truths that bring changes to life.
The truth found through experiences that may not always be able to explain or place in words.

Examples; a loved one visiting after he/she has departed from this realm
What may be felt from another without a word being spoken
Now I do understand the examples are some truths I hold and experience has brought such to me.

So, others hold truths as well.

So, wonder why the debates and conflicts, if truths lead to understanding and finding ways to connect? They can be what is shared or help find inner peace.

If not understood or experienced then is it meant for that person?

Now, if a truth is used/misused to gain control over another then is it a truth?

Find at times one has a truth to share and say and sometimes may be intimidated or shouted down (so to speak) to express it. Which reflects more upon the fear of one or group doing the shouting then upon the one speaking his/her truth.

Brings to mind; Speak your truth, even if your voice (or in this case, hands) shake.

What do you all think?

Hi Moonie ..

For truth to exist there requires a relationship between the truth and what you are that can relate to it .

So many layers to this as there are layers to self .

What I would say is that beyond self and all the layers there is only what you are .

What you are that is beyond the relationship between self and anything ..

I posted a quote from Bernadette Roberts the other day speaking along certain lines

How can anything be known, when it Is?
How can the eye see itself?
Or music hear itself?
How can 'I' know 'that', when 'I' AM 'that'?

So bearing that in mind, the truth has to be personal .. because from the perspective that I AM the Truth, you can only know it when there is I AM knowing and not being that .

There is a difference between being and knowing ..


x daz x