I cannot decide whether mystical phenomena are real or not

[MattMVS7]

When, for example, skeptics and proponents of the paranormal argue back and forth, they make intelligent-sounding arguments that make it difficult for me to determine who is telling the truth. If there was some incredibly stupid-sounding argument that was being made, then I could obviously see that argument as being false. But since both the skeptics and the paranormal proponents/researchers are trained and educated people, then they make smart-sounding arguments.

This is the reason why I remain undecided on who is telling the truth. This is the reason why I tell others to keep an open mind all the way through to the end and to not dismiss skeptics and researchers because these skeptics and researchers would come up with further smart-sounding arguments that should really make you think twice about rejecting their claims. This also applies to any other debate such as people who argue that vaccines are not harmful and those who argue they are harmful. Both sides of the debate appear to be making smart-sounding arguments and I cannot tell who is telling the truth.

Actually, I think I have figured it out. I lack the insight necessary to perceive who is making the dumb arguments and who is making the smart-sounding arguments. From my perspective, both the skeptics and the paranormal researchers are making smart-sounding arguments and I cannot tell who is speaking dumb lies. The skeptics claim that the paranormal researchers are making the dumb arguments while the researchers claim the skeptics are making the dumb, absurd arguments. But I cannot tell who is since I lack insight.

It would be no different than American Idol singers who perceive their singing as being great. They lack the insight necessary to perceive the horrible flaws in their singing. Another example would be when I write essays. From my perspective, my writing skill is good. But other experienced people would come along and tell me that my writing is terrible. In short, I lack insight and am inexperienced in life. Whether I wish to gain insight and life experience is up to me. But I currently have no interest.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

When, for example, skeptics and proponents of the paranormal argue back and forth, they make intelligent-sounding arguments that make it difficult for me to determine who is telling the truth. If there was some incredibly stupid-sounding argument that was being made, then I could obviously see that argument as being false. But since both the skeptics and the paranormal proponents/researchers are trained and educated people, then they make smart-sounding arguments.

This is the reason why I remain undecided on who is telling the truth. This is the reason why I tell others to keep an open mind all the way through to the end and to not dismiss skeptics and researchers because these skeptics and researchers would come up with further smart-sounding arguments that should really make you think twice about rejecting their claims. This also applies to any other debate such as people who argue that vaccines are not harmful and those who argue they are harmful. Both sides of the debate appear to be making smart-sounding arguments and I cannot tell who is telling the truth.

Actually, I think I have figured it out. I lack the insight necessary to perceive who is making the dumb arguments and who is making the smart-sounding arguments. From my perspective, both the skeptics and the paranormal researchers are making smart-sounding arguments and I cannot tell who is speaking dumb lies. The skeptics claim that the paranormal researchers are making the dumb arguments while the researchers claim the skeptics are making the dumb, absurd arguments. But I cannot tell who is since I lack insight.

It would be no different than American Idol singers who perceive their singing as being great. They lack the insight necessary to perceive the horrible flaws in their singing. Another example would be when I write essays. From my perspective, my writing skill is good. But other experienced people would come along and tell me that my writing is terrible. In short, I lack insight and am inexperienced in life. Whether I wish to gain insight and life experience is up to me. But I currently have no interest.

I'm in an old book now : 'Beyond the Quantum' by Michael Talbot , also author of 'The Holographic Universe'. Actually, both of these books are very good looks at things from an open-minded scientific perspective . Talbot had experiences of a poltergeist as a child, for years, and an OBE that changed his outlook, yet he remains grounded in his approach, and "conservative" in his claims about "mystical" things, while also being very "liberal" in his inclusion of ideas that push the boundaries of accepted scientific thought, and venture into the paranormal, metaphysical, and mystical. Good stuff

oh, and you get to decide what to believe ; he doesn't force things on the reader

[Nameless]

Matt - there's an old saying - you can't know what you don't know.

I think it applies here. There really is just a couple things to think about.

We are all creators, and we are creating our own reality.
Which follows, truth is only a construct until it is no longer your truth.
We create our reality (our own individual realities) through our belief system.
So it is whatever I believe that creates my reality.
So they are both correct, both the skeptic and the believer.

The same goes with the topic of mystical phenomenon.

Pretend both are walking down a path, and see a flower blooming and bend down to smell it.

The skeptic might wonder at the beautiful color and the smell might be quite delicious and is happy in that moment.

The mystical person might wonder at the beautiful colors, the smell might be quite delicious, and this mystical person might decide to tune in to hear what the flower is saying to him, hear the joy that is the flower, and is happy in that moment.

They are both happy in that moment. There is no right or wrong.

It is all perspective. And it is all about beliefs.

For 50 years I had no interest in the "paranormal" - which now, means to me, anything that the mainstream society deems "crazy" LOL.

Then one day I did. And I researched and read and studied, just like I was taking a college class. And I was so excited to be learning what I was learning.

I would advice just to pay attention to what you are drawn to, what interests you. And go learn about that. Life should be about feeling amazing in whatever you are doing, amazing being a broad term in itself.

So here are 2 you tube clips about this subject. Both are channeled. You decide if they are making all this up, or does this feel good? I would consider channeling "paranormal" as society's tag, but I believe it is something everyone does, everyday, we just all "tune in" to a different degree. Some allow more, some allow not at all.

Abraham - Rampage of Invincibility

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8rk...390CC 4936AA8

Seth - Your Beliefs form your Reality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlrhvAYgwH8

I know this wasn't the paranormal you were looking for LOL, but thought I'd share some of what I've learned.... I wish I knew then what I know now, but maybe the timing wasn't right. I think we are ready for things when we are ready for them, so just listen to your gut, it will tell you where to go...

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Swami Chihuahuananda

I'm in an old book now : 'Beyond the Quantum' by Michael Talbot , also author of 'The Holographic Universe'. Actually, both of these books are very good looks at things from an open-minded scientific perspective . Talbot had experiences of a poltergeist as a child, for years, and an OBE that changed his outlook, yet he remains grounded in his approach, and "conservative" in his claims about "mystical" things, while also being very "liberal" in his inclusion of ideas that push the boundaries of accepted scientific thought, and venture into the paranormal, metaphysical, and mystical. Good stuff

oh, and you get to decide what to believe ; he doesn't force things on the reader

Having had a similar experience as you see the person knows, they have experienced. Everyone wants to experience but the rule is the chance of it is near 0 for another. The paranormal usually will not manifest. I want to add even here, a person really does not know what belief is until there is an experience and belief is taken to a whole new level. And even here, others will say no or yes. People who experience this know that level. Yes, the outlook includes the experience another will not (ever) have, it is life altering because to say otherwise would be a lie. I would also say this, it might be people are chosen to experience when others are not. I only say this because I say to this day, why me. I certainly didn't ask for it. My own certainty is because I interacted with it. I was young and thought it was so cool. I "wish" every person could have an experience yet some might be very frightened.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Originally Posted by lemex

Having had a similar experience as you see the person knows, they have experienced. Everyone wants to experience but the rule is the chance of it is near 0 for another. The paranormal usually will not manifest. I want to add even here, a person really does not know what belief is until there is an experience and belief is taken to a whole new level. And even here, others will say no or yes. People who experience this know that level. Yes, the outlook includes the experience another will not (ever) have, it is life altering because to say otherwise would be a lie. I would also say this, it might be people are chosen to experience when others are not. I only say this because I say to this day, why me. I certainly didn't ask for it. My own certainty is because I interacted with it. I was young and thought it was so cool. I "wish" every person could have an experience yet some might be very frightened.

I was surprised reading his experience of the poltergeist and his theories about how it manifest and what it was. Worth looking into; not what I expected. he was not afraid at all; it was so frequent that he and his family shrugged it off casually. I'd probably pee my pants, on the other hand

[BeboNow]

Good stuff written already, but let me add my take:

Without controlled reproducible verification, no decisive conclusion can be drawn about supernatural phenomena one way or the other. That means we’re left to our own interpretations based on our own empirical experience and shaped by our own brain’s filters.

Because of this, it’s impossible to prove any one person’s belief is more valid than anyone else’s. Being dogmatic is inappropriate under these circumstances and doesn’t serve. Remaining flexible in our own opinions and tolerant of others’ does serve. It helps find new wisdom and a deeper understanding of what we do believe. And to get there, uncertainty is required. As soon as we’re certain of our answers, or believe in someone else's answers, our own wisdom is trumped. We’re stop growing.

Science doesn’t have the answers (which isn’t to say it never will), but science seeks knowledge, The payoff of spirituality is not knowledge but wisdom. Asking the questions without requiring answers, exploring the mysteries of life that have no answers, this is where wisdom is found.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

When, for example, skeptics and proponents of the paranormal argue back and forth, they make intelligent-sounding arguments that make it difficult for me to determine who is telling the truth. If there was some incredibly stupid-sounding argument that was being made, then I could obviously see that argument as being false. But since both the skeptics and the paranormal proponents/researchers are trained and educated people, then they make smart-sounding arguments.

This is the reason why I remain undecided on who is telling the truth. This is the reason why I tell others to keep an open mind all the way through to the end and to not dismiss skeptics and researchers because these skeptics and researchers would come up with further smart-sounding arguments that should really make you think twice about rejecting their claims. This also applies to any other debate such as people who argue that vaccines are not harmful and those who argue they are harmful. Both sides of the debate appear to be making smart-sounding arguments and I cannot tell who is telling the truth.

Actually, I think I have figured it out. I lack the insight necessary to perceive who is making the dumb arguments and who is making the smart-sounding arguments. From my perspective, both the skeptics and the paranormal researchers are making smart-sounding arguments and I cannot tell who is speaking dumb lies. The skeptics claim that the paranormal researchers are making the dumb arguments while the researchers claim the skeptics are making the dumb, absurd arguments. But I cannot tell who is since I lack insight.

It would be no different than American Idol singers who perceive their singing as being great. They lack the insight necessary to perceive the horrible flaws in their singing. Another example would be when I write essays. From my perspective, my writing skill is good. But other experienced people would come along and tell me that my writing is terrible. In short, I lack insight and am inexperienced in life. Whether I wish to gain insight and life experience is up to me. But I currently have no interest.

I guess you ultimately have to conclude and accept the each one of us builds their own reality. The frustration comes from trying to impose your reality onto others. You can't!