The man who was born blind

[ThatMan]

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born? This is not my finding, I read it on a website, quite interesting choice of words, this shows how "secret knowledge" is hidden within these verses, the more I search, the more I find.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born? This is not my finding, I read it on a website, quite interesting choice of words, this shows how "secret knowledge" is hidden within these verses, the more I search, the more I find.

It's referring to Karma.....

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by sky123

It's referring to Karma.....

Well, I know, but it amazes me how I was not able to see it for so so many years and now suddenly it became so clear.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Well, I know, but it amazes me how I was not able to see it for so so many years and now suddenly it became so clear.

ThatMan,

Do not be too quick to assume you understand at least not until we view this in some depth. Yes, karma is implied. The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. Jesus was demonstrating that the cycle of karma could be escaped from and the healing could be proof of that. Notice, however, in this case he did not attribute the man's blindness to the sin of his parents. Instead he said that, in effect, the blind man was a guinea pig so that his healing would be a platform for displaying the work and the power of God.

This is a very significant chapter in the Bible. In fact, the entire chapter is devoted to this one incident. That should alert us to the importance and the significance of this story. Much of the rest of the chapter is devoted to giving convincing proof of the reality of the miracles. Blindness here is both literal and metaphoric. The metaphorical truth is the greater. The formerly blind man realized the significance by stating....."He is a prophet"(vs.17). This is recognizing that it was a divine healing. The Pharisees were convinced that Jesus was a sinner.....probably because the healing was on a Sabbath...vs. 16. This demonstrates that they believed in the literal law. The Pharisees persisted in their literal understandings....vs.34....and discounted the blind man's assessment of Jesus because they said the blind man 'had been steeped in sin from birth'(accepting karmic law and the passing of sin generationally). Now the closing and most important verses. John 9:39-41...…….."Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into THIS world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind" In other words, those that are metaphorically or literally blind can see when they are touched(enlightened) by the divine. Those who see will become blind....meaning those who cling to the literal truth will never be able to see spiritual truth and they will remain blind to this.

Continuing with vs. 40-41...."Some Pharisees who were with him heard his say this and asked, "What ? Are we blind too ?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."...….meaning: It you would admit your blindness(spiritual and metaphoric blindness) you would not be guilty of sin. But because you deny this blindness and assert, instead, that you can see, your guilt remains......you are still guilty until you repent. Repent here being derived from metanoia(the transforming of the mind). Until they repent in this sense they will remain prisoners of their own ignorance, denial and this material world.

So, yes, karma is indicated here but also the means to escape karma and no longer be enslaved by it.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

Do not be too quick to assume you understand at least not until we view this in some depth. Yes, karma is implied. The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. Jesus was demonstrating that the cycle of karma could be escaped from and the healing could be proof of that. Notice, however, in this case he did not attribute the man's blindness to the sin of his parents. Instead he said that, in effect, the blind man was a guinea pig so that his healing would be a platform for displaying the work and the power of God.

This is a very significant chapter in the Bible. In fact, the entire chapter is devoted to this one incident. That should alert us to the importance and the significance of this story. Much of the rest of the chapter is devoted to giving convincing proof of the reality of the miracles. Blindness here is both literal and metaphoric. The metaphorical truth is the greater. The formerly blind man realized the significance by stating....."He is a prophet"(vs.17). This is recognizing that it was a divine healing. The Pharisees were convinced that Jesus was a sinner.....probably because the healing was on a Sabbath...vs. 16. This demonstrates that they believed in the literal law. The Pharisees persisted in their literal understandings....vs.34....and discounted the blind man's assessment of Jesus because they said the blind man 'had been steeped in sin from birth'(accepting karmic law and the passing of sin generationally). Now the closing and most important verses. John 9:39-41...…….."Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into THIS world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind" In other words, those that are metaphorically or literally blind can see when they are touched(enlightened) by the divine. Those who see will become blind....meaning those who cling to the literal truth will never be able to see spiritual truth and they will remain blind to this.

Continuing with vs. 40-41...."Some Pharisees who were with him heard his say this and asked, "What ? Are we blind too ?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."...….meaning: It you would admit your blindness(spiritual and metaphoric blindness) you would not be guilty of sin. But because you deny this blindness and assert, instead, that you can see, your guilt remains......you are still guilty until you repent. Repent here being derived from metanoia(the transforming of the mind). Until they repent in this sense they will remain prisoners of their own ignorance, denial and this material world.

So, yes, karma is indicated here but also the means to escape karma and no longer be enslaved by it.

I like the way you answer, you give clear answers! This is a really great answer!

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

I like the way you answer, you give clear answers! This is a really great answer!

Thanks....

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Thanks....

But think a little bit more, they asked if also that man sinned and he could not sin before being born, I know about the generational sin that passes from parents to children, but that would be the sins of the parents, not the sins of that man, it's an inherited sin, not something done by that man. The writer was smart enough to hide this within that verse, the way that question was formulated is quite tricky, you need eyes to really see it, otherwise, you would be like me, reading it over the years and seeing nothing.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

Do not be too quick to assume you understand at least not until we view this in some depth. Yes, karma is implied. The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. Jesus was demonstrating that the cycle of karma could be escaped from and the healing could be proof of that. Notice, however, in this case he did not attribute the man's blindness to the sin of his parents. Instead he said that, in effect, the blind man was a guinea pig so that his healing would be a platform for displaying the work and the power of God.

This is a very significant chapter in the Bible. In fact, the entire chapter is devoted to this one incident. That should alert us to the importance and the significance of this story. Much of the rest of the chapter is devoted to giving convincing proof of the reality of the miracles. Blindness here is both literal and metaphoric. The metaphorical truth is the greater. The formerly blind man realized the significance by stating....."He is a prophet"(vs.17). This is recognizing that it was a divine healing. The Pharisees were convinced that Jesus was a sinner.....probably because the healing was on a Sabbath...vs. 16. This demonstrates that they believed in the literal law. The Pharisees persisted in their literal understandings....vs.34....and discounted the blind man's assessment of Jesus because they said the blind man 'had been steeped in sin from birth'(accepting karmic law and the passing of sin generationally). Now the closing and most important verses. John 9:39-41...…….."Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into THIS world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind" In other words, those that are metaphorically or literally blind can see when they are touched(enlightened) by the divine. Those who see will become blind....meaning those who cling to the literal truth will never be able to see spiritual truth and they will remain blind to this.

Continuing with vs. 40-41...."Some Pharisees who were with him heard his say this and asked, "What ? Are we blind too ?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."...….meaning: It you would admit your blindness(spiritual and metaphoric blindness) you would not be guilty of sin. But because you deny this blindness and assert, instead, that you can see, your guilt remains......you are still guilty until you repent. Repent here being derived from metanoia(the transforming of the mind). Until they repent in this sense they will remain prisoners of their own ignorance, denial and this material world.

So, yes, karma is indicated here but also the means to escape karma and no longer be enslaved by it.

' The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. '


Do you think M that Karma is ' Sin ' or that sin produces Karmic Seeds?

Original Sin is supposedly removed through Baptism according to the Roman Catholic Church so some Karma would have been removed ( if you believe this) hence the idea sin is inherited from Parents is null and void. What a tangled set of beliefs each Religion holds to be true is enough to give you a headache

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

But think a little bit more, they asked if also that man sinned and he could not sin before being born, I know about the generational sin that passes from parents to children, but that would be the sins of the parents, not the sins of that man, it's an inherited sin, not something done by that man. The writer was smart enough to hide this within that verse, the way that question was formulated is quite tricky, you need eyes to really see it, otherwise, you would be like me, reading it over the years and seeing nothing.

' They asked if also that man sinned and he could not sin before being born '


I wonder where they thought Karma came from if you couldn't sin before you are born....

[zastrakoza]

Originally Posted by sky123

' They asked if also that man sinned and he could not sin before being born '


I wonder where they thought Karma came from if you couldn't sin before you are born....

Some other thoughts for consideration…

Ok, so a man cannot sin before he is born. What about his parents. Were they without sin?

I agree with Molearner, this chapter is not about sin but about judgment. The Jews’ idea of karma was based in judgment (an eye for an eye). Therefore, the disciples assumed that the blindness (a bad thing) was a punishment for sins. Jesus said no one sinned, not the blind man, nor the parents, that is to say that Jesus took the law into his own hands and overruled it. For all judgment was given to Him (John 5:22), and His sacrifice ended sin (Hebrews 9:26). And that what people think is a “bad” thing or a punishment is really a good thing. Because there is no judgment without the law. Freedom from the law means everything is good (no tears, no pain, no sorrow). But if you cling to the law, your sin remains.

Now the pharisees held a court case on the matter, because it was a broken law, to judge Jesus. They tried to get the blind man and the parents to provide evidence that Jesus broke the law of the sabbath, which they would not do. The blind man wisely used the scriptures to defend Jesus, saying that He could not be a sinner and wield the power of God (v. 24-34). In another case, he was convicted (John 5:9-10).

The first covenant was to teach the inadequacy of any reality based on matter. It issued a law that no man could uphold perfectly in the flesh. Therefore, all knew that all (flesh) were sinners (that is to say fell short of perfection) and that God was only appeased with a blood sacrifice (that is to say perfection). And this was to be executed until the judgment of works. Verse 4 says that the first covenant was by works (the law), but that works were about to end. After the judgment no more sin would exist. People tend to want to take this literally as a utopian world, but Jesus showed that it was freedom from the law that released sin by the new covenant which is love.

Z