Nonduality and the validity of spiritual paths

[iamthat]

Oneness is Being. Being is limitless and changeless. There is only Being. Nothing interrupts Being, nothing exists outside of Being. Actions may seem to occur within Being, but Being remains untouched.

Being is the most simple thing there is, just one thing everywhere.

Peace.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Oneness is Being. Being is limitless and changeless. There is only Being. Nothing interrupts Being, nothing exists outside of Being. Actions may seem to occur within Being, but Being remains untouched.

Being is the most simple thing there is, just one thing everywhere.

Peace.

Yes but sometimes there is a period between resonance with that and consolidation in which that which was excluded has to be included before the process is complete. One of the things that often has to be included as Oneness in action............is the interllect.

The peace of the end of disconnection and Oneness with all, is not achieved until all is included. It must also be said that Oneness is the absense of peace and all violence that appears, so no escape from connection no matter what is arising.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Oneness is Being. Being is limitless and changeless. There is only Being. Nothing interrupts Being, nothing exists outside of Being. Actions may seem to occur within Being, but Being remains untouched.

Being is the most simple thing there is, just one thing everywhere.

I don't get why you have taken the term 'Being' with its own meaning and redefined it to the same as 'Oneness'. Why not just use the term 'Oneness'?

This assertion sounds very similar to some of the 'Eastern' philosophies that say all is 'consciousness'. I have experiences to the contrary. I think this is an artifact of the way they approach discovery of reality. Namely they meditate inwards in their own being. They don't seem to be able to get beyond their own consciousness. An outward journey (like through OBE) can get 'beyond' consciousness.

Though Oneness is unlimited, I don't see why it has to remain the same.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by wstein

I don't get why you have taken the term 'Being' with its own meaning and redefined it to the same as 'Oneness'. Why not just use the term 'Oneness'?
...
Though Oneness is unlimited, I don't see why it has to remain the same.

When you realise the nature of Being you realise that there is one thing everywhere, and everything exists in Being. So Being is Oneness. You may define 'Being" otherwise. We could also call it "the Self" as Ramana Maharshi did. It is all just labels for the same thing.

And when you realise the nature of Oneness you realise that it is a changeless state. Oneness is everywhere, it does not move, it is perfect stillness. Change is movement and all movement occurs in stillness. But Oneness never changes.

Peace

[wstein]

Originally Posted by iamthat

And when you realise the nature of Oneness you realise that it is a changeless state. Oneness is everywhere, it does not move, it is perfect stillness. Change is movement and all movement occurs in stillness. But Oneness never changes.

The Unity I know is total uniformity without feature or attribute. The feeling one gets from viewing it is 'profound infinite sameness'. As such there is no 'being-ness' to it (or change, or movement). In fact there isn't even any stillness to it, that is just a comparison to where one views it from (seperation).

Is Unity (as I describe it) the same as Oneness? Or is Oneness simply the totality of all that is with distinctions in tact?

[iamthat]

What you call Unity sounds very much like what I call Being. No features, no attributes, no change, just profound infinite sameness. I tend to call it Being or the Self because this Unity is my very nature (ignoring the fact that there is no "my" to have any kind of nature). The label we give this is not so important - we have to call it something.

Peace.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by iamthat

What you call Unity sounds very much like what I call Being. No features, no attributes, no change, just profound infinite sameness. I tend to call it Being or the Self because this Unity is my very nature (ignoring the fact that there is no "my" to have any kind of nature). The label we give this is not so important - we have to call it something.

Thanks for clearing that up. There are at least another dozen beings on the planet do actually know Unity/Oneness to some degree :(

I find it less confusing to others when I re-use as few words as possible when attempting to convey such concepts. For instance 'being' means something very finite to most English speakers that is totally unlike what you are describing here. For those that totally do not get what you refer to, there is no distinction between 'being' and 'Being'. Counter-intuitively perhaps, I find sticking only one word like 'Oneness' is usually less confusing than using both 'Being' and 'Oneness'.

[iamthat]

Yes, words which are meant to clarify can often end up causing confusion.

This phenomenon of awakening to Unity/Oneness seems to be happening for more and more people. We may each have our own ideas of why this is so. A potential problem is that some people may mentally grasp the philosophy of Advaita or non-duality without having any corresponding shift in awareness. So they can use all the right words without actually knowing the Reality of which they speak. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Peace.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by iamthat

This phenomenon of awakening to Unity/Oneness seems to be happening for more and more people. We may each have our own ideas of why this is so. A potential problem is that some people may mentally grasp the philosophy of Advaita or non-duality without having any corresponding shift in awareness. So they can use all the right words without actually knowing the Reality of which they speak. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Pretty much every aspect of awakening is subject to false awakenings. Further, many who 'study' too much and 'experience' too little convince themselves that mental understandings (or knowings) are the thing itself. They are very convincing to themselves and to others as yet not awake.

I think there are two degrees of awakening to Unity/Oneness. The by far more common is to truly perceive Oneness or to experience near Oneness. In this case one truly does know Oneness and can access Oneness to alter reality. Its pretty much a more profound version of the white light experience. The less common is to join with the Oneness (and thus cease as a being or anything else). I don't know for sure but my instinct is that one can not 'return' from a full merge with Oneness.

There is a grey area where one can venture so close to Oneness that you are no longer conscious nor can you perceive anything yet you as a being remain sufficiently in tact that you can emerge out of Oneness and reassemble your full being. This is as far as I have gone.

I hear talk about 'more' people awakening to Oneness yet see no indication its happening. As such I have no opinion or insight as to why it might be happening.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by wstein

Pretty much every aspect of awakening is subject to false awakenings. Further, many who 'study' too much and 'experience' too little convince themselves that mental understandings (or knowings) are the thing itself. They are very convincing to themselves and to others as yet not awake.

I think there are two degrees of awakening to Unity/Oneness. The by far more common is to truly perceive Oneness or to experience near Oneness. In this case one truly does know Oneness and can access Oneness to alter reality. Its pretty much a more profound version of the white light experience. The less common is to join with the Oneness (and thus cease as a being or anything else). I don't know for sure but my instinct is that one can not 'return' from a full merge with Oneness.

There is a grey area where one can venture so close to Oneness that you are no longer conscious nor can you perceive anything yet you as a being remain sufficiently in tact that you can emerge out of Oneness and reassemble your full being. This is as far as I have gone.

I hear talk about 'more' people awakening to Oneness yet see no indication its happening. As such I have no opinion or insight as to why it might be happening.

When emphasising those differences it can easily be forgotten that Oneness is both and all. Each the other and the One Love in action dreaming difference where there is none. Not that it matters in terms of connection for it is Oneness forgetting itself and emphasising those differences:) However for the purpose of ending the feeling of disconnection and feeling connected to all, those apparent differences must be gathered into the fold of Oneness otherwise the feeling that there is some level or degree of separation remains.