Relating to one another

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

[indent]Otherwise what we call friendship is usually fraught with all kinds of challenging dynamics and frustrations - especially ones we find we cannot tolerate due to our own imperfections and deficiencies. Most so-called friendships (and that would include many marriages, etc.) are therefore less than healthy co-dependencies, subtle competitions, dominance/subservience/exploitation, demands/expectations, etc., mutual projection foils, etc. and are ultimately not progressive - except for the part where they (eventually) serve to reveal what needs to be worked on or walked away from.

Suggesting the spiritual view is that God/Highest Self is really the only true friend, and that being the case, all other human interactions are then within that purview. Deliberate focus on that dynamic is really the healthiest and most satisfying even if it takes a constant practice and vigilance to apply in real life - but then that's the point for those who have been awakened. ...[indent

That's a very 'I'solationalist (just me and 'God') generalization, IMO, which may still be 'true' for many. I suggest this based on my relatively recently having reached the point where I entered into (developed? actualized?) several brother/sister/friend/what's-'mine'-is-'yours' 'in' God (where the other person was so too!) kind of relationships - one being with my biological sister who also synchroniatically reached such a point herself, thought we of course knew each other long before that.

Am looking forward to establishing (sharing) more with others.

Here, Jyotir, let me share that your orientation and shtick presently come across as being so self-determiningly i.e. 'insular' (at present, to me at least) that I don't think I could have such a relationship with you (again, at present at least).

This https://genius.com/Bob-dylan-ballad-...hin-man-lyrics may not feel like it, but it is really meant as an 'outreach' to you and others here, J, by way of (hopefully) shaking things up, to see if they can/may settle in a different pattern.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by davidsun

That's a very 'I'solationalist (just me and 'God') generalization, IMO, which may still be 'true' for many. I suggest this based on my relatively recently having reached the point where I entered into (developed? actualized?) several brother/sister/friend/what's-'mine'-is-'yours' 'in' God (where the other person was so too!) kind of relationships - one being with my biological sister who also synchroniatically reached such a point herself, thought we of course knew each other long before that.

I have a few too.
Understanding the whole "God realization" has opened me to know that all life can be viewed and actualized as yourself wherever one is, but then you do find those who reflect you in ways to show all this a little closer.

The realization is of course what we determine as a "source" becoming itself. I think for many coming into this understanding of themselves, may see in time that the whole "dancing as/with God" can become a dance with God and a dance with others, when it gives itself permission to do so. Through balance of giving and receiving and the nature of bringing the actualization into creation, to create from that awareness.
In saying all this, some of us learn and grow through relationships and develop our spiritual awareness of self and others through those. I know I have. If I had my time over I suppose you could say I might lean towards J and be more deliberate in how to avoid all the drama of the external 'persons' activating me and me finding myself through... But all in all what we learn through is often what the creative flow, follows on from and too as a whole source as part of our unique process and creation perhaps..I love people now. That can only be a good thing for the world.

Am looking forward to establishing (sharing) more with others.

Here, Jyotir, let me share that your orientation and shtick presently come across as being so self-determiningly i.e. 'insular' (at present, to me at least) that I don't think I could have such a relationship with you (again, at present at least).

Are you pointing to something here in yourself or pointing to something for J? J's view through my own awareness of myself very valid. In the journeying through relationships and the stress and struggles I created for myself, another way would well have been my saving grace, not from my suffering and struggles, but with less invasiveness of the external reflections and distractions activating me into process. A "solid" foundation (which often is not always going to be in this world) in God without fear of course perhaps would have allowed me to build trust in myself early on, which over time would bridge a more trusting connection with others in this way.

What J says about God as you bestie, shows me how "understanding" deeper the nature of each person reflecting their awareness of their God realizations/ actualization supports the "whole" realization of God in me.

This https://genius.com/Bob-dylan-ballad-...hin-man-lyrics may not feel like it, but it is really meant as an 'outreach' to you and others here, J, by way of (hopefully) shaking things up, to see if they can/may settle in a different pattern.

Patterns are funny things when you reflect upon them.

I think the whole point of awakening is to awaken to the truth within you as yourself. (It can support others in that truth to show more, another way)
So what is true for you is only true for you as that and that becomes unique to you.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Are you pointing to something here in yourself or pointing to something for J? J's view through my own awareness of myself very valid.

Are you 'implying' that you think the former is the case. In which case, my response is: "Are you pointing to something here in yourself or pointing to something for me?"

BTW I didn't say his wasn't 'valid'. Said it was self-determinedly 'insular' (in my view).

And I'm 'looking' to (continue! to) 'create' a different kind of WOOHOO-with-others wave-splash myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzuNJod_o7g

[Jyotir]

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[Jyotir]

Hi davidsun,

Keeping it simple, since this is the central issue:

Originally Posted by davidsun

That's a very 'I'solationalist (just me and 'God') …

Can you please explain specifically,

how or why does a God centered approach to human relations as an ideal, necessarily limit and therefore establish “isolationist” or “insular” consequences?

And derivative to that question, or included within it, because it is inseparable -

how do you arrive at the conclusion; please elaborate on, "just me and God" ,

seeming to suggest by emphasis of 'just' an exclusion of some kind....none of which do you explain, and yet insinuate a deficiency to which you offer an implied superior alternative, represented by a Bob Dylan song (??) - to what you have concluded or assumed? iow, I'm looking for some clarity on how or why you reached your conclusions as stated, which you have not provided.

So here is a chance to

"looking forward to establishing (sharing) more with others"

I'm looking forward myself to see the quality of that sharing.

~ J

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi davidsun,

Keeping it simple, since this is the central issue:
Can you please explain specifically,

how or why does a God centered approach to human relations as an ideal, necessarily limit and therefore establish “isolationist” or “insular” consequences?

And derivative to that question, or included within it, because it is inseparable -

how do you arrive at the conclusion; please elaborate on, "just me and God" ,

seeming to suggest by emphasis of 'just' an exclusion of some kind....none of which do you explain, and yet insinuate a deficiency to which you offer an implied superior alternative, represented by a Bob Dylan song (??) - to what you have concluded or assumed? iow, I'm looking for some clarity on how or why you reached your conclusions as stated, which you have not provided.

So here is a chance to

I'm looking forward myself to see the quality of that sharing.

~ J

Hi Backatchoo, J -

I appreciate the engagement.

A 'God'-centered approach doesn't preclude anything. One might say that it includes everything by definition, though I would suggest that a 'better' description of what I am aiming to talk about is "a 'God'-immersed or a "God'-surrounded-and-pervaded approach.

Its was your very clearly (IMO) saying: "[Suggesting] The spiritual view is that God/Highest Self is really the only true friend, and that being the case, all other human interactions are then within that purview. Deliberate focus on that dynamic is really the healthiest and most satisfying even if it takes a constant practice and vigilance to apply in real life" and then very condescendingly, IMO adding "but then that's the point for those who have been awakened," which (besides many other statements which you made in the same 'spirit' elsewhere) lead me to the 'conclusion' that your view and philosophy are basically self-'insulating'. Your totally presumptuous and unwarranted/excessively direction-of-the-conversation co-opting claim: "and that being the case" , should it have worked that is, would have 'steered' and 'limited' the discussion to your foregone/assumed to be 'correct' conclusions.

The 'superiority' (implication) of the alternate I threw out to shake things up is in direct counter-response to the implied 'superiority' (correctness and completness) of your view-n-derivative-philosophical statements.

If you wish to seriously/genuinely (not just formalistically) consider and discuss the validity and possible value of alternative (from yours) views and philosophical statements, I would be happy to engage in such kind of conversation with you. Based on your long-standing (in this forum context, and probably more so elsewhere) personal-philosophical stance (as I register it to be, that is) I think that is unlikely at present.

I hope you find this to be a satisfactory, in the sense of meaning-full, response to your "... to what you have concluded or assumed? iow, I'm looking for some clarity on how or why you reached your conclusions as stated" query."

In terms of the Bob Dylan lyric I submitted hoping to shake things here up, here's an excerpt from the 'view' I am in the process of 'picturing' in a treatise I am presently composing which I hope you can relate to, if not now then maybe in the future:

"Jesus’ prescient depiction of the next such ‘coming’ event, wherein those who are prepared to do so soulfully ‘wake up’ to the Whole Truth and therefore enter into and thereafter continue to consciously live in communion with the Totality of Life while others ‘fall’ by the wayside and get recyled (so to speak), to wit: “As the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. … they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:27‑30) does not mean that he will then literally flash across the sky and be seen everywhere as he ‘gloriously’ orbits the planet in person. People who are emotionally invested in worshiping Jesus himself as a super-magical genie kind of God will undoubtedly regard the explanation that follows as being unacceptably heretical, but assuming you are not one such – why would you still be engaged in exploring this thesis otherwise? – let me submit that the above-quoted statement only makes real sense if one interprets it metaphorically, with “heaven” being understood as referencing the realm of consciousness and (so) “the clouds” as referencing the particularities of ideological constellations, or philosophies, within it.

“The Son of man” alludes to the corpus of human apprehension, or ‘knowing’ – often spoken of as Cosmic Consciousness – pertaining to the Life as a Whole; that is, the entirety of the living system composed by and of our creative Source (i.e. God, ‘the Father’), All That Is (i.e. The Entity of Creation, ‘the Son’, a/k/a Christ), and everyone’s relationally interfused interaction(s) therewith and therein, as postulated and discussed herein hitherto. The “lightning” that shines “out of the east … even unto the west” analogically dramatizes the way in which powerfully functional thoughts, i.e. ‘knowings’, are psychically transmitted and received and (so) spread throughout our noosphere . The overall implication, of course, being that consciousness of what the words (from John 14:20) “I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”*** super-succinctly signify will illuminatingly permeate the thinking of holistically inclined people wherever they may be located all over the world."

*** Hence my preference to thinking in terms of being 'immersed' along with everyone else in 'God' rather than just being personally God-'centered'.