They reveal themselves

[Morpheus]

So, again then, back to my previous question...
Who is it that the prophesied Savior, and Messiah came to save?
And, how does predestination and "the Elect" fit in?

Is it the present and temporary individual in the illusory material world?
Or, is it the greater personage involving the spirit and angelic, who may be manifesting succesive incarnations in time; Who's actual origin and situation is apart from time?
Who is the individual who is "lost", in actuality? The evolved organic individual in time? Or, the soul apart from time? This goes along with the question of whether or not the fall of Adam and Eve is to be equated with the fall of the angelic, depicted in Isaiah 14, and Ezekiel 28 in the scriptures. And also, apparently, in Revelation 12.

We are to understand, even in science, that there is really no beginning and no ending, which involves time.
One could see that the Savior came from where we are sourced originally, apart from time... and involving the angelic.
(See Revelation chapter 12, regarding the tail of the devil, and the stars.)

One can see that the purpose of Jesus ministry and atoning work has to do with bringing peace, joy, and assurance to the "lost" in the temporary and illusory world.
So, who is it who is lost, and redeemed?
The organic individual, in time? Or the greater aspect of the person, apart from time?

Originally Posted by Morpheus

So, again then, back to my previous question...
Who is it that the prophesied Savior, and Messiah came to save?
And, how does predestination and "the Elect" fit in?

Is it the present and temporary individual in the illusory material world?
Or, is it the greater personage involving the spirit and angelic, who may be manifesting succesive incarnations in time; Who's actual origin and situation is apart from time?
Who is the individual who is "lost", in actuality? The evolved organic individual in time? Or, the soul apart from time? This goes along with the question of whether or not the fall of Adam and Eve is to be equated with the fall of the angelic, depicted in Isaiah 14, and Ezekiel 28 in the scriptures. And also, apparently, in Revelation 12.

We are to understand, even in science, that there is really no beginning and no ending, which involves time.
One could see that the Savior came from where we are sourced originally, apart from time... and involving the angelic.
(See Revelation chapter 12, regarding the tail of the devil, and the stars.)

One can see that the purpose of Jesus ministry and atoning work has to do with bringing peace, joy, and assurance to the "lost" in the temporary and illusory world.
So, who is it who is lost, and redeemed?
The organic individual, in time? Or the greater aspect of the person, apart from time?

As soon as the rebellion occurred, God knew exactly what must take place. That the Messiah and satan would battle each other--Jesus would bruise satan in the head( war in heaven) and satan would bruise Jesus in the heel( death as a mortal)
God knew exactly how many at that point=144,000= the elect--the bride of Christ=The little flock( not the great multitude)Luke 12:32)--these are the anointed( elect)
Jesus came only for Israel at that point--hoping they would turn from their apostasy--they refused--Then Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by kjw47

As soon as the rebellion occurred, God knew exactly what must take place. That the Messiah and satan would battle each other--Jesus would bruise satan in the head( war in heaven) and satan would bruise Jesus in the heel( death as a mortal)
God knew exactly how many at that point=144,000= the elect--the bride of Christ=The little flock( not the great multitude)Luke 12:32)--these are the anointed( elect)
Jesus came only for Israel at that point--hoping they would turn from their apostasy--they refused--Then Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles.

Dunno if that actually addresses the question though, KJ.

Science, the situation of the NDE, and the scriptures also, infer something that the JW's don't accept or believe in.
Involving a greater reality and truth than what is percieved.

[FallingLeaves]

you can do any science or magic or really anything else you want, but the point of all this isn't in any of those things that people like to talk about doing.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Dunno if that actually addresses the question though, KJ.

Science, the situation of the NDE, and the scriptures also, infer something that the JW's don't accept or believe in.
Involving a greater reality and truth than what is percieved.

What is NDE?