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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #51  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:35 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Gents -- hello and this is a very interesting discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
If it rains one can strip naked, if it's hot one can put on a onesie or like you say if it rains one can open an umbrella for these are all self preferences .. Why doesn't one want to get wet in the rain if it's not ego related?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
The ego perspective seems to be of the impression that 'I' did it, but actually there was a psychological reaction to circumstance as part of one universal motion.

What I apprehend is that both of these perspectives come from truth -- though terminology may vary -- in that we are individuated consciousness incarnated in a body, and we are also part of the universal One. Our individuated consciousness is "real" in the sense of non-illusory -- as is the state of our interbeing in the universal One. For me, neither of these perspectives is illusory. They are both aspects of truth, of individuation, interbeing, and oneness.

On the other hand, identifying with either of these apart from authentic love (in lovingkindness and equanimity) would and does yield an illusory, non-real perspective.

Meaning, if I identify with my individuated experience and my being as being more important, more real, or the only real thing (the real "One", hahaha) than the experience of others and their being...that is non-real or illusory. Service to self is non-real or illusory in this same way. Meaning, over the span of the eternal moment, it (domination) cannot and thus will not endure.

Likewise, valuing the others and the Oneness over my individuated consciousness, abnegation and identification with all else as more worthy than my own individuated consciousness is also not manifesting authentic love. And over the span of the eternal now, it (abnegation) cannot and thus will not endure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
You are speaking as if the ego has an impression from a third person perspective, when it's the ego that has the impression that you are having an impression that you did it . You seem to distance the impression that you did it by saying how the ego gives an impression . Either way it's an idea about yourself that you have that is ego related . There really is no way around this idea about oneself in reflection of this reality unless one is absent of being aware of this reality butt on some level I AM aware of some reality and there remains an idea about oneself unless there is awareness beyond any self reflection .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
In my case I see the ego in the third person and it's not a 'nice' thing. It is basically deceptive in assuming the position of me. But I'm onto it, though, and I can see it as 'not I', and I think in time it will dissolve completely. I also saw directly that which reveals my nature, so the distinction between a false sense of self and who I actually am is pretty clear to me.

Sensing and perceiving en route to ownership
The references to sensing and perceiving are analogous to our own apprehension and manifestation, it seems to me. Daz spoke of reflection and ideas...Daz, do you also mean reflection in the "visual" sense of seeing or perceiving in the mind's eye, as well as conceptually? Gem spoke of seeing his "not I", which to me says the perception is both conceptual and also something in the mind's eye (which may be my assumption).

I think I get what Daz says about the criticality of ownership on the spiritual path and I think Gem is actually also speaking to recognition and ownership of the integrity gap but perhaps from a different process or position. And so I assume we are all talking about what some say is our pure heart centre, alignment with our centre or core being, our higher selves (i.e., who we are at core), or what some call God or alignment with Source.

The perspective of ownership in individuation stresses lovingkindness a bit more and then equanimity...the perspective of ownership in non-individuation (for lack of a better term) stresses equanimity a bit more than lovingkindness. Both are necessary in their balance...though my non-scientific examination per my energy work reveals a mix that is heavier on lovingkindness is necessary to sustain individuated human existence (spiritual and physical), because first (apparently) we distribute the load and then we can carry more focused load. I think as we deepen and broaden our ability to energetically carry and manifest lovingkindness, however, we likewise deepen and broaden our ability to carry and manifest equanimity.

Who we are, who we truly are
For myself, likewise I can of course conceptualise and feel or resonate with my "higher self", with my centre, but I can also "see" who I am literally...and hear, etc., etc. This is, in fact, simply who I am...who I truly am. I use different terms purely in acknowledgement of the integrity gap and thus the gap in more fully realising our true selves.

The more clearly we ground and align our "waking lives" in each moment with who we are at core, the more clarity and strength we bring to our journey. The more authentically we manifest our "higher selves", in authentic love, in this and in all times and places. And...the more clearly we can "see", "hear", and otherwise know our "true selves" (for lack of better terms to reference the alignment and the becoming process), the more clearly the integrity gap will surface or reveal itself. (Put another way, though, I think it will be very difficult as a collective at this rudimentary point in our collective development, to articulate or actualise collective ownership without fully embracing ownership at the individuated level)

It seems to me we will constantly evolve and move to find our balance in focusing on our individuation and our interbeing and collectivity, whilst honouring all of these. Owning and honouring who we are at core and manifesting who we are (whilst growing and evolving), in our individuation and our interbeing...(or, simply allowing that person to BE in the waking world)...this is the greatest thing we can do for ourselves and for one another. Because in so doing, we are shining a lamp on our paths and on those of others.

Peace & blessings
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #52  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:47 PM
stillwater29 stillwater29 is offline
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I think the mind can sometimes find enemies if we let it, I feel by being conscious of its tricks and processes as well as the egos and all other functions is the trick in my view. The trick to avoid the madness it can lead you into. The mind to me is like say a chessboard and its pieces, they are so many ways it can analyse a situation so many tactics we can play and should have played......The mind loves its strategies and loves a debate. We could and many of us do spend all our time thinking. I believe that one has to be aware of its function which is to help with maybe logical and rational thought. To me it’s like the software and it depends on how that software is programmed on to how beneficial or determental it is going to be in your life.

I feel to know the nature of things and knowing their strengths and weaknesses is the key in all areas of one’s whole being. But especially when dealing with the mind. It hates to be bored or rather it’s programmed that way so until we deprogram it. it’s when you become aware that it will continuously process information ( past and future are its main haunts). It is in this awareness that the mind can be tamed and trained . the best change is slow and steady because it last longer in my experience. Oh and if you fall of the bike always get back on and don’t beat yourself up about it.

From my experience i feel our subconscious has been programmed by many societal functions such as education, peer pressures, environmental, cultural and so forth. That we have been geared towards fearing everything and then the mind can become a enemy because it is feeding on fear . The more some someone is fearful; the more the mind can become a enemy .
So in conclusion an untrained mind is a hazard but once we become aware of this knowledge. This is the first step then the trick is to slowly train the mind . ( through various practices not just traditional meditation i.e when your being still and relax which is the beginning stage) The trick is to align one’s life and activities so that they produce peace of mind, the meditation helps induce a meditative waking state. The end goal is for everything you do in life to become a waking and sleeping/ constant meditation.
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  #53  
Old 13-01-2018, 01:38 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillwater29
I think the mind can sometimes find enemies if we let it, I feel by being conscious of its tricks and processes as well as the egos and all other functions is the trick in my view. The trick to avoid the madness it can lead you into. The mind to me is like say a chessboard and its pieces, they are so many ways it can analyse a situation so many tactics we can play and should have played......The mind loves its strategies and loves a debate. We could and many of us do spend all our time thinking. I believe that one has to be aware of its function which is to help with maybe logical and rational thought. To me itís like the software and it depends on how that software is programmed on to how beneficial or determental it is going to be in your life.

I feel to know the nature of things and knowing their strengths and weaknesses is the key in all areas of oneís whole being. But especially when dealing with the mind. It hates to be bored or rather itís programmed that way so until we deprogram it. itís when you become aware that it will continuously process information ( past and future are its main haunts). It is in this awareness that the mind can be tamed and trained . the best change is slow and steady because it last longer in my experience. Oh and if you fall of the bike always get back on and donít beat yourself up about it.

From my experience i feel our subconscious has been programmed by many societal functions such as education, peer pressures, environmental, cultural and so forth. That we have been geared towards fearing everything and then the mind can become a enemy because it is feeding on fear . The more some someone is fearful; the more the mind can become a enemy .
So in conclusion an untrained mind is a hazard but once we become aware of this knowledge. This is the first step then the trick is to slowly train the mind . ( through various practices not just traditional meditation i.e when your being still and relax which is the beginning stage) The trick is to align oneís life and activities so that they produce peace of mind, the meditation helps induce a meditative waking state. The end goal is for everything you do in life to become a waking and sleeping/ constant meditation.

"I think the mind can sometimes find enemies if we let it"

Who or what is the "we" you are referring to. If it is the mind then the question remains, why does it regard itself as an enenmy?
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  #54  
Old 13-01-2018, 06:26 AM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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I looked at you question in a new light and thought I would a observation.

Perhaps the mind regards itself as the enemy because it knows what it is capable of and consequently, cannot be trusted.

A hallmark of an enemy is that which cannot be trusted.
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  #55  
Old 13-01-2018, 07:47 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
God-Like,

Your Ďself-referencingí (?) avatar depicts you as a Native American.

Are you?

*

Not sure if you are asking me if I am self referencing or not?

If you are, then yes I am ..

and nope, last time I checked I was a regular white dude


x daz x
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  #56  
Old 13-01-2018, 08:05 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Have you ever asked yourself the question. What is it in you that regards your mind as an enemy? Could it be your mind itself that regards itself as such? Why would it do that? Just what is going on?

If you are aligned with the Universe or the Will of God then no amount of thought can bother you ...if you are not aligned, however, then a single thought can imprison you for a lifetime such is the mind's nature.
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The Frost performs its secret ministry,Unhelped by any wind. Samuel Taylor Coleridge

And you won't find that Love comes easy but that Love is always right.

All Intellect falls prey to Love's Glory ! Rumi

He Made the Lock, He also Made the Key ! Rumi
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  #57  
Old 13-01-2018, 08:36 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
If you are aligned with the Universe or the Will of God then no amount of thought can bother you ...if you are not aligned, however, then a single thought can imprison you for a lifetime such is the mind's nature.
Right on …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Rm0x73oD4

*
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  #58  
Old 13-01-2018, 10:35 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampgrl
I looked at you question in a new light and thought I would a observation.

Perhaps the mind regards itself as the enemy because it knows what it is capable of and consequently, cannot be trusted.

A hallmark of an enemy is that which cannot be trusted.

Ha ha:) Yes if it had been driven to depression about itself having believed what spiritual paths tell it.

That would be a remarkable insight by the mind and would prove that it could be trusted:):)
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  #59  
Old 13-01-2018, 10:36 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
If you are aligned with the Universe or the Will of God then no amount of thought can bother you ...if you are not aligned, however, then a single thought can imprison you for a lifetime such is the mind's nature.

That may or may not be so but does not answer the question why mind regards itself as an enemy?
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  #60  
Old 13-01-2018, 10:43 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
.

Yes I just let it do its thing, chatter away if it wants and hope its figuring where the dog has taken my other sock.

p.s

When I use the term "I" in this context, is the mind referring to itself. In fact whenever there is speech, it feels like mind talking. How is that for you?
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