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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 07-12-2016, 02:30 PM
WuWei WuWei is offline
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Non/Duality: A question of perspective

Duality and Non-Duality are ways of talking about the world. Dualistic qualities
are how we see them from a subjective narrow human perspective. They're not
wrong, they're just the way we have evolved to see what was necessary
relative to being the species that we are. Bitter, sweet - aren't opposites but
we can place them opposite to each other because we have that perception.

Non Duality would be the perception of things that allows for what a Dualistic
perspective would see as conflicting. 'Are you cruel, or kind?'.. could it be that
someone is capable of both, even simultaniously? Can you tell the truth with a
lie, much like a fictional writer can write a fiction which represents fact?

The real world is non-dualistic, in terms of our characters and our nature. But
our outward perspective is dualistic. There is an up, and a down - and these two
things are totally opposite. Until you move out of the world and look from orbit
then the same direction can be down, and then up on the other side of the
same planet.

When you look at someone, taking a non-dualistic view, you are able to notice
that they aren't just the traits you have seen in them. They are also entirely
capable of the other traits they haven't ever shown. This is WHY those good
traits mean so much.

The honest man CAN lie,
The deceitful wife CAN be truthful,
The kind women CAN be cruel,
The fighter CAN be peaceful.

The dualistic shallow human mind refuses this. Their excuse for their lackings
relies on them 'simply being that way'. So, when they steal it is because
they ARE a thief, and the prospect that they could be an honest worker
is thrown away. Leaving no room for change or growth.

If this wasn't so, then you could hold absolutely no credit for goodness. If a man
was unable to be nasty, then his niceness would seem cheap and simple. It's
no longer something he makes an effort for and so it's harder to relate to. It
simply is just the way he is.

This is the essense of 'Taking for granted'.

To see deeply is to be able to see non-dualistically, in everyone we know and love.
They are not innately some side of an opposite, they're not either heads nor
tails, honest nor a liar, interesting nor boring. These are judgements we pass
from our limited perspective.

That doesn't mean they don't exist, however.

-Steps off the Pulpit-
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:06 PM
SecretDreams333 SecretDreams333 is offline
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hi seems to me you are lost in words
comparing words with words
all words are of the same origin
they are all stord in the same box
so why see much diffrence between one and the other word ?

male part of the mind
sure if you say a tree leave is green

the word green is not the real green
that is what you see
the duality is both combined this just gives you the ability
to experience that the green is not just light but part of you
and that words can also be silent not changing what you are
but are just a tool but light can be shared to , as light energy
or as images even , and colors you can create green light is an energy
we can create to use , here is no theory here at all


the spiritual evolvement is unite male and female energy
male and female or ying and yang can be one and no longer separated
how ever this does not lead to non duality


just ends separation between parts of you , you can all be
I think non duality is a word made up by spiritual theoreticians ?

multyriality is more like it ,the now you live in and the past and future also interact
as do other levels of existence , like your eternal you part you always are which is also not
non dualistic at all but can be anything and knows it
anyway what does it matter ??? not much to me at all
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  #3  
Old 17-12-2016, 11:30 PM
William 辰 William 辰 is offline
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Duality has nothing to do with nature or natural laws, and very little with emotions, words and thoughts.
It is not something you can easily identify: 'Duality' is defined as the 'battle' between the higher self and the corporeal self. Are you allowing your soul to come through, or not? Maybe most of the time? Or not quite often? And then that shapes your views about the world, together with all the emotions, words and thoughts.
And you don't have to think about this. You do this automatically. But you can control it, if you focus on your emotions. If you want a better life, it starts with focusing on your positive emotions.
That's what duality is: The "battle" between the higher self and the corporeal self. And with it the choice to focus on positive experiences or negative ones.
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  #4  
Old 19-12-2016, 02:36 AM
WuWei WuWei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William 辰
Duality has nothing to do with nature or natural laws, and very little with emotions, words and thoughts.
It is not something you can easily identify: 'Duality' is defined as the 'battle' between the higher self and the corporeal self. Are you allowing your soul to come through, or not? Maybe most of the time? Or not quite often? And then that shapes your views about the world, together with all the emotions, words and thoughts.
And you don't have to think about this. You do this automatically. But you can control it, if you focus on your emotions. If you want a better life, it starts with focusing on your positive emotions.
That's what duality is: The "battle" between the higher self and the corporeal self. And with it the choice to focus on positive experiences or negative ones.

That's not the definition of Duality, what so ever. Why would you even say that... It's bizarre when people just make up their own definitions and run on that. lol You don't know the definition I was using the word with, clearly. Here it is straight from the dictionary.

2.
an instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.

To side with positive emotions doesn't benefit anyone in any way. Ignoring negative emotions!? Because you can't say 'focus on' without then implying that you should 'not focus on'. Emotions are not there to be had, they're there to observe. You can tell this by the fact that it's what people naturally immediately and always do. 'I am feeling something', if said in a logical way would be 'I am observing my feelings doing______' because 'we' asin the sentient agent, is not doing any emotions.

The dualism has absolutely nothing to do with any specific dualism. It has to do with, in this context, the psychological process of humans to exclusivize what it considers to be opposite things. For instance, we observe light and dark on a spectrum, we consider as a result that dark is opposite to light. But this isn't objectively true, things can be both. Just as emotions can feel positive, yet BE negative.

Example: With particular brain disorders, people become very satisfied watching small creatures being killed slowly. This is a 'positive' emotion for them, but it's definitely not a positive emotion. It's extremely negative.

No different, you can be honest about being dishonest, breaking the implicit assumption that you are Either an honest person, or a dishonest person.

I don't really understand though, how what your post said related what so ever to what mine said. I wonder if you even actually read it.
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  #5  
Old 20-12-2016, 12:50 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
The real world is non-dualistic, in terms of our characters and our nature. But
our outward perspective is dualistic. There is an up, and a down - and these two
things are totally opposite. Until you move out of the world and look from orbit
then the same direction can be down, and then up on the other side of the
same planet.

I just wanted to point out that in addition to where you look at things from, what you look at can make a big difference.

For example I'm aware that meditators often make their body 'still' in order to channel going into the light, but still means low frequency (compared to when you are walkin garound for example) so you can also look at the whole experience as going 'down' in the material spectrum. So 'up' or 'down' depends here on what aspect of the experience you value... you get more light, at the cost of less material flexibility.
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  #6  
Old 20-12-2016, 06:11 AM
WuWei WuWei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
I just wanted to point out that in addition to where you look at things from, what you look at can make a big difference.

For example I'm aware that meditators often make their body 'still' in order to channel going into the light, but still means low frequency (compared to when you are walkin garound for example) so you can also look at the whole experience as going 'down' in the material spectrum. So 'up' or 'down' depends here on what aspect of the experience you value... you get more light, at the cost of less material flexibility.

How can a person be still, while on a planet travelling extremely fast around a sun, while spinning around it - in a galaxy which it's self is turning, in a universe which is expanding?

Yet we can be still, also. So that's all I can add. I appreciate your response, and I would say that when you involve 'experience' things naturally take a dualistic context, because as I said perception is dualistic. But really, subjective experience is what I should have said.
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  #7  
Old 22-12-2016, 03:13 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
Duality and Non-Duality are ways of talking about the world. Dualistic qualities
are how we see them ...
Non Duality would be the perception of things that ...
I'd say Duality and Non-Duality are modes of experience which correspond to functional modes of consciousness.
When you say "Non Duality would be the perception of things" that is duality because in Non-Duality 'things' are not experienced.
Duality is the working mode of consciousness, the mode of everyday life, of work and science and scientific progress, of dates, parties, happiness and sadness ...
Non-duality is a possible mode of rest, non-doing, evenness, selflessness .... In non-duality you cannot go shopping
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Old 22-12-2016, 05:33 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Hello,

Have some thoughts.

In making decisions the mind evaluates to choose this or that. Seems based on what the individual may deem necessary or best way to navigate or work through something. So, in this there are differences. But, is one opposing the other or are they just different ways of viewing/ perceiving somethings?

Duality, to me, implies that there are oppositions or conflict. Is experiencing differences necessarily lead to conflict? Right now it is day and I am experiencing light shining outside. Yet, it is cloudy and there are shadows. So, there is a bit of darkness as well. But, the light is not opposing the dark, nor is the dark trying to oppose the light. Both are just being reflected or noticed.

This brings my thinking that it is this or that and this and that being experienced.

The mind may have to choose this or that when trying to interpret something or make a decision. In what is happening it is this and that .

If the individual find opposition to this or that then as I understand this can be dualistic.
If not and just see both going on or happening, then there is no opposition, just
what is happening in the full scope of things.

Well, that is some of how it comes across to me.
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  #9  
Old 23-12-2016, 02:55 AM
WuWei WuWei is offline
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Color

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
I'd say Duality and Non-Duality are modes of experience which correspond to functional modes of consciousness.
When you say "Non Duality would be the perception of things" that is duality because in Non-Duality 'things' are not experienced.
Duality is the working mode of consciousness, the mode of everyday life, of work and science and scientific progress, of dates, parties, happiness and sadness ...
Non-duality is a possible mode of rest, non-doing, evenness, selflessness .... In non-duality you cannot go shopping

Things can certainly be experienced outside of the conceptual dualisms. A person can like the look of a watch without disliking the look of another watch... Well, that's where it gets interesting. Some people can't... I can, and people who experience life without a fixation locked within the scope of dualisms can.

Avoiding entering a conversation of post-modernism, is it possible to experience something without not-appreciating something else? Not from my perspective, and not from the perspective of the worshippers of Shiva of ancient Vedic religions. You can simply enjoy things without initially feeling 'hungry' for them.

But that escapes the point really. I like that clock though, not sure why. If i'm not sure why, is dualism relevant?
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  #10  
Old 23-12-2016, 02:57 AM
WuWei WuWei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Hello,

Have some thoughts.

In making decisions the mind evaluates to choose this or that. Seems based on what the individual may deem necessary or best way to navigate or work through something. So, in this there are differences. But, is one opposing the other or are they just different ways of viewing/ perceiving somethings?

Duality, to me, implies that there are oppositions or conflict. Is experiencing differences necessarily lead to conflict? Right now it is day and I am experiencing light shining outside. Yet, it is cloudy and there are shadows. So, there is a bit of darkness as well. But, the light is not opposing the dark, nor is the dark trying to oppose the light. Both are just being reflected or noticed.

This brings my thinking that it is this or that and this and that being experienced.

The mind may have to choose this or that when trying to interpret something or make a decision. In what is happening it is this and that .

If the individual find opposition to this or that then as I understand this can be dualistic.
If not and just see both going on or happening, then there is no opposition, just
what is happening in the full scope of things.

Well, that is some of how it comes across to me.

I loved this response!

Does this represent my disliking of other responses?
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