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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #11  
Old 03-11-2010, 10:16 AM
andrew g andrew g is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijah
Yes, but Advaita cuts deeper than that.
It's not a question of 'do I have no control' - or 'I have no control because everything is interconnected'...
It's pointing to the fact that there is no-you to whom these notions relate to.

Whereas I would say that there is a Self, and that the 'I-thought' is an actuality of the human individuation.
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  #12  
Old 03-11-2010, 10:54 AM
Elijah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSX-R girl
Many thanks for the explanations - I? think I? get it
That's the paradox, Advaita has nothing for the individual to get.
There are no teachers or students of Advaita.
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  #13  
Old 03-11-2010, 10:57 AM
Samana Samana is offline
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.

This might be helpful for anyone who doesn't understand the Buddhist concept of "not - self" (anatta) and is certainly well worth reading.


Anatta & Rebirth

by Buddhadasa Bhikkhu



A talk originally addressed to students of Puget Sound University in Seattle, Washington The explanations of rebirth they had heard seemed to contradict the principle of anatta. (not self) Tan Ajarn was asked to clarify the seeming contradiction.


"Today, we will speak about anatta and rebirth. We will discuss anatta first, and then discuss rebirth.

If we understand anatta properly, it will be easy to understand rebirth correctly.The feeling that one is a self occurs naturally and instinctually. Hence, people say "self." Then, they develop theories and promulgate teachings of a higher self — one more special, or more profound, than the usual daily self. Through this process of teaching and educating, the belief in self develops into the highest self: an eternal soul. This kind of belief and teaching was, and remains, quite common.

When the Buddha appeared, however, he taught the opposite: that all these things are anatta (not-self).

The primitives who long ago lived in forests and caves believed there is atta.(self) They also believed inspirits, powers, and ghosts, which were taken to be selves, also. This common belief occurs easily in the human mind. Thus, there happened the teaching of atta, then there appeared the ceremonies, rituals, and rites in relation to all those spirits, angels, demons, and things.

As civilization develops further, the beliefs about self and spirits also develop, as do the corresponding ceremonies and rituals. The highest, most fully developed version of such beliefs occurred in India during the era of the Upanishads, which taught atta as it is believed today: that there is a self – a fundamental basis or reality – in living things, which is successively reincarnated, which is slowly purified through this long succession of births until it finishes in eternity.
This is the most highly developed theory of the primitive belief in self. This is how the highest atta must be taught.

This teaching of self and soul spread from India into other cultures, as far as it could go. In most cultures, there was already a receptivity for this idea, even though their teachings weren't previously connected to India. So they welcomed it. Other cultures accepted this belief and it spread around the world. Even in Thailand, the Upanishadic teaching on the existence of self was taught to the fullest extent before Buddhism arrived.

The teaching of the existence of atta progressed to its highest form in India during the Upanishad era. The Vedanta, in particular, taught the highest self. When there is the highest atta, the eternal self, it's called "samma." This is a different meaning of samma than we're accustomed to in Buddhism. It has the same meaning as "paramatman." This then, in India at that time, was considered the highest, newest, most excellent teaching. Such was the situation as the Buddha was about to appear.

When the Buddha appeared, he thought in a new way. He saw that this teaching of atta and self was not true. First, the thing they were talking about did not actually exist. Second, the belief in atta, the teaching that atta exists, is the cause of dukkha.(dissatisfaction, suffering) He pointed out that all dukkha is based in what we call the "self."

The Buddha taught anatta for these two reasons: atta is wrong and it is the cause of dukkha. Thus, there appeared the teaching of anatta. "


Continued here:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:jWMNCOvGhloJ:das-buddhistische-haus.de/pages/images/stories/dokumente-englisch/Ajahn-Buddhadasa/Ajahn_Buddhadasa--Anatta_and_Rebirth.pdf+anatta+and+rebirth&hl=en&pi d=bl&srcid=ADGEESgne1UEMtpy8CcIneY_rt_QzZYN6rkThCK yzEAba9CKfu1dC7eo5KUl71Wp_8C0lK754iryooUmAKGbLPo7n Fe1sEwVvQlBgzNlEXiFttIJcM5xAJgqQBkD5okO_v9ExIpX3Lq l&sig=AHIEtbQpY8VW1X6wngkekt5UlkQyC_Aa-A



with metta,

Samana
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  #14  
Old 03-11-2010, 10:59 AM
andrew g andrew g is offline
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Yes, I agree that the concept of no-self of not-self can a useful one given the way the mind works.
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