Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

[Brucely]

Their beliefs, not reality. If you believe you are fat because society deems a certain weight or look as 'fat' then yes you will feel fat. If you believe you are beautiful, then you will standout no matter what you look like. If you believe you are skinny even if you are fat, then you will have a more active lifestyle no matter how fat you are

[Shivani Devi]

The counter-argument to 'creating your own reality' comes in the shape of bureaucrats and pen-pushers in official positions who decide to create everybody's reality, including mine.

For example, in MY universe, I still can get plastic bags from the supermarket...coffee shops still gave their take-away coffee in paper cups...I can still buy codeine without prescription...etc but NOT in the world in which I live anymore.

Now, a few of us are into 'saving the planet' and a few of us (self included) don't care, but why should we be forced into it? When, going to the shops means to first pack the car with hessian bags, boxes, travel mugs and have to lug them all around until we put items in them? I mean, I'm also proud of my laziness, so why should another take that right from me eh?

Of course, going back 100 years ago, when plastic wasn't invented, people had to do this...but now that plastic HAS been invented, what has been seen cannot be 'unseen' and I bet most are ruing the day when plastic ever WAS invented...and I'm getting in before people show me the stomach contents of dead marine creatures....

Just because SOME of us chuck our waste in the waterways (not me)...I do the correct thing and place my waste in the rubbish/recycle bins...but I must pay for the negligence of OTHERS...and this is why I 'create my own reality' doesn't work, because if it did, I'd be able to get what I want, WHEN I want...get people to hand over all their money to me...get people to let me cut in line at shops...get people to come up and talk to me and offer to do housework for me...but the world doesn't work that way.

/rant

[Shivani Devi]

What should idealisically happen is for people, like me to be charged if we want to still 'live in our own reality'...for example, if we want plastic bags from a supermarket, we should be charged $1 each for them....if we want our coffee in take-away cups, we should be charged for the cost of the paper cup OR be given a discount for using our own cup...and so the decision still rests upon how much money we are prepared to part with for the sake of convenience and I would gladly part with extra money to live the lifestyle to which I have become so accustomed.

Physics says my observation changes the outcome.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwXQjRBLwsQ

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Happiness

"There are no limitations to the self. You are only limited by your beliefs. Your beliefs create your reality."

While I'd like to accept these statements as true, I've found 2 counterarguments to them.

1. If these statements are true, then I would want to be luxuriously self-indulgent. I would want to eat all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not get fat. I would want to have a great body, muscular with six-pack abs, without spending much time and effort working out or watching my diet. I would want to get money without working for it. I would want to get all the sex I want without getting tired and with whomever I want without getting rejected. But this is not how the world works: if I eat too much, I get fat; I won't get a great body without working out; I won't get any money if I don't work for it; I can't have sex as frequently as I want or with whomever I want. So if these statements are true, why can't I get all these things that I want?

2. Why would people who overestimate their ability fail? There is no shortage in the world of incidents of people who overestimate their ability but fail miserably in whatever they set out to do. These people overly believe in their ability, and very often they themselves are the only ones unaware of their overestimation and may even refuse to listen to the advice of their friends. If they have such strong belief in their ability, why then would they fail if "your beliefs create your reality"?

3. Also, I see a problem that these statements can cause if they are true: they can be applied in ways that are unscientific and unfair. It is basic science that if I consume more calories than I burn, I get fat. So if I can, just by believing so, wish away all the extra calories after eating, then doesn't this run contrary to established scientific fact? So if I can, just by believing so, influence/determine the outcome of a scientific experiment or measurement on a whim, then wouldn't it be meaningless to conduct any scientific experiment or measurement? And if scientific experiments and measurements are meaningless, how could it be possible that science makes technological advancement and improves our lives? Also, does "your beliefs create your reality" mean that if I believe that global warming is fake news, then the Earth will not undergo global warming? So would people who do not believe in global warming and therefore continue to pollute the planet shift themselves to a universe where there is no global warming? So if you did something wrong or illegal, could you wish away the consequences, such as a fine or a jail term, simply by believing strongly that you won't get them? If so, then these statements not only go against science, but also justice.

Hi Happiness,

There is an old occult maxim that "energy follows thought".
In the physical, the general rule is that the results in the gross physical precipitate from the higher more subtle planes in a definite hierarchy.
This is even how many diseases are formed.

For instance one doesn't spontaneously build a house first - and then draw up the plans - and then think, "oh, I think I'd like to build a house". There is a decided order that stems literally from Reality itself in which we are an inseparable microcosm.

Belief is on the mental plane, but that isn't the only component consciousness in 'getting something done'. We just have that predominant focus (mind) as human beings, but belief is still important.

Then there is another significant factor that in the physical, differentiated beings have commensurate free-will, restricted or facilitated by that very same hierarchy - autonomous beings and forces (even in the purer material sense) which limit, compete with and modify other's free will.

So things can and often must take time to accomplish - we can't just will things into being, and so the continuity of belief infused with emotional continuity of determination is necessary in order achieve anything in the physical.

This is why if a teenaged girl has an argument with her mum and says, "I hate you mother! I wish you would drop dead!!", it usually doesn't instantly happen.

On the other hand, human beings with vision, patience, determination, etc., and often cooperation, may accomplish the seemingly impossible - simply because we do embody the infinite.

Bottom line - imo you are fundamentally incorrect in your assumptions or haven't observed closely enough what actually happens, but more importantly HOW things happen.

~ J

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

This is why if a teenaged girl has an argument with her mum and says, "I hate you mother! I wish you would drop dead!!", it usually doesn't instantly happen.

Isn't this more to the point this is a false statement though. Saying it and there is no wish for it (inside) but usually something else. The thing is I recognize there are 2 different "I's" and 2 realities, not 1. So actually there are 2 things going on, the false statement and the other person themselves, it's own "I". There are checks and balances to reality. This actually makes me wonder what is the reality. If the statement is false then this within the falseness is the reality. All the time in the world doesn't change it. The idea you suggest a thing may happen in time is being ignored to be sure yet at their level (of reality) not being ignored. It' like saying I hate you, when you love someone but seems out of place to say it.

[Raziel]

Speaking of teenage girls ...

Billions have been obsessively attracted to pop stars over the years. They believe that they have a connection with them & that they are in love.

They go to concerts to see their famous love & to hopefully lock eyes ...

How many of those billions of girls ever managed to bag themselves the true love that they desire?

They believe it all with a tremendous passion yet - nothing ...

~

The same goes for those preaching the power of God at Lions - they truly have faith that the lions have no wish to attack a servant of God & yet..

Nom Nom Nom ...

~

We can of course plan & envision ideas which may turn into a reality - however just as many don't.

We don't create our own realities, some people wrongly believe that they do despite knowing full well that they couldn't spontaneously turn into a Unicorn regardless of wishing to.

.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

The counter-argument to 'creating your own reality' comes in the shape of bureaucrats and pen-pushers in official positions who decide to create everybody's reality, including mine.

For example, in MY universe, I still can get plastic bags from the supermarket...coffee shops still gave their take-away coffee in paper cups...I can still buy codeine without prescription...etc but NOT in the world in which I live anymore.

Now, a few of us are into 'saving the planet' and a few of us (self included) don't care, but why should we be forced into it? When, going to the shops means to first pack the car with hessian bags, boxes, travel mugs and have to lug them all around until we put items in them? I mean, I'm also proud of my laziness, so why should another take that right from me eh?

Of course, going back 100 years ago, when plastic wasn't invented, people had to do this...but now that plastic HAS been invented, what has been seen cannot be 'unseen' and I bet most are ruing the day when plastic ever WAS invented...and I'm getting in before people show me the stomach contents of dead marine creatures....

Just because SOME of us chuck our waste in the waterways (not me)...I do the correct thing and place my waste in the rubbish/recycle bins...but I must pay for the negligence of OTHERS...and this is why I 'create my own reality' doesn't work, because if it did, I'd be able to get what I want, WHEN I want...get people to hand over all their money to me...get people to let me cut in line at shops...get people to come up and talk to me and offer to do housework for me...but the world doesn't work that way.

/rant

I presume that all the above is not intended as a serious comment.

Peace.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Raziel

We can of course plan & envision ideas which may turn into a reality - however just as many don't.

We don't create our own realities, some people wrongly believe that they do despite knowing full well that they couldn't spontaneously turn into a Unicorn regardless of wishing to.

This is missing the point. Our realities are not created from passing insignificant thoughts and wishes, or from temporary excessive emotional states. We do not have the power to manifest these desires on the physical plane.

But we each have a vibration. This vibration reflects our spiritual states, our mental states, our emotional states, and our physical choices. This vibration has a resonance which will attract particular circumstances to us, and thus we are responsible for all that manifests in our lives.

As Jyotir says, energy follows thought. We can determine what manifests in our lives through sustained mental focus while being spiritually centered; we then add the emotional element which gives our thought-forms vitality and magnetic substance; and when the time is right we release that thought-form into the etheric field from whence it manifests. This is white magic.

But if you believe that you do not create your reality then you will experience a reality which is seemingly out of your control. Which oddly enough is the reality you have created.

Peace.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by iamthat

This is missing the point. Our realities are not created from passing insignificant thoughts and wishes, or from temporary excessive emotional states. We do not have the power to manifest these desires on the physical plane.

But we each have a vibration. This vibration reflects our spiritual states, our mental states, our emotional states, and our physical choices. This vibration has a resonance which will attract particular circumstances to us, and thus we are responsible for all that manifests in our lives.

As Jyotir says, energy follows thought. We can determine what manifests in our lives through sustained mental focus while being spiritually centered; we then add the emotional element which gives our thought forms vitality and magnetic substance; and when the time is right we release that thought form into the etheric field from whence it manifests. This is white magic.

But if you believe that you do not create your reality then you will experience a reality which is seemingly out of your control. Which oddly enough is the reality you have created.

Peace.

Sorry,

That is called choice.

Yes we all have choices to make in life but it is not creating reality as the question proposes.

It is picking from options on the table within reality.

Do we have choice - yes.

Your using new age word play aimed at unhappy housewives of the 1980's.

Sad but true.