Love?

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by shivatar

lol, so you think you understand karma eh?

Glad you found it funny. Could you back your claims about love and karma in any way? ... lol

[running]

Originally Posted by shiningstars

How can you escape what is in motion? I imagine some things can be changed, others cannot.

Laws.

The drive of the action is dissolved. I don't if everything? But perhaps its possible.

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by shiningstars

OP: baro-san

I believe the Love spoken of in spirituality refers to what H:O:R:A:C:E speaks of - True Love, Genuine Unconditional Love ...

Thanks, I appreciate your post.

I love dogs. I truly do! All of them. When I interact with one my heart warms up. I'm not mad, or upset when one barks at me, or nips me with their teeth. It's their nature! This doesn't mean that I would let an aggressive dog free when people are around, or that I would be careless when I approach one.

Humans too have their own nature (and supposedly a more developed intellect). I don't hate a man (woman, or California's 3rd choice) who does bad things to others, but I treat him in such a way that others as well as himself are protected, from his nature.

I'm saying that indiscriminate love can't be what we're supposed to learn. Even more, indiscriminate love is a bad thing when enables others' negative actions; it generates negative karma, and you're responsible for its consequences.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by baro-san

Glad you found it funny. Could you back your claims about love and karma in any way? ... lol

Yes I can. A full cup can't hold more water though. What would be the point of telling my ideas to someone who has their own already?

If anything what I was saying was "re-think what you think you know". perhaps move it from "Im certain about" to "it really seems like".

I've seen a lot of people give their self anxiety and fear and many other things because they have a faulty understanding of karma. What I was saying is go back to the drawing board, I wasn't trying to tear your beliefs down and replace them with mine.

Just because we read it in a book that there is karma and we think it sounds logical doesn't mean we have an understanding of how it works.

feeling light we notice it's warmth. Knowing that light also gives warmth doesn't give us an understanding of how amazing and mysterious light actually is, although the experience does give us a little understanding that can possible lead to greater understanding.

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by shivatar

Yes I can. A full cup can't hold more water though. What would be the point of telling my ideas to someone who has their own already?...

You're trolling ...

[Baile]

Originally Posted by baro-san

I'm saying that indiscriminate love can't be what we're supposed to learn.

That's the position I take. And many people have argued that position. I'm not sure if it's because they don't understand me, or I them. I don't believe I'm here to love everyone, or forgive everyone. Nor do I worry about karma. I react to what is coming at me. I support loving actions. But unloving acts, I neither love nor forgive. Some say higher love means accepting and forgiving all actions. I don't agree. And I will take the karmic consequences, whatever they may be, knowing that what I do is what I truly believe. In my view, if the intentions are honest, the karmic repercussions are nil.

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by Baile

... In my view, if the intentions are honest, the karmic repercussions are nil.

I like Annie Besant's explanation of karma in her "The Ancient Wisdom". Here there are a few passages:

...
Three classes of energies are sent forth by man
in his ordinary life , belonging respectively to the
three worlds that he inhabits : mental energies on
the mental plane , giving rise to the causes We call
thoughts ; desire energies on the astral plane , giving
rise to those we call desires ; physical energies
aroused by these , and working on the physical
plane , giving rise to the causes we call actions
...
Next , it will be necessary to distinguish between
the ripe karma , ready to Show itself as inevitable
events in the present life ; the karma of character ,
Showing itself in tendencies that are the outcome of
accumulated experiences , and that are capable of
being modified in the present life by the same power
(the Ego) that created them in the past ; the karma
that is now making , and will give rise to future
events and future character .
...
we grasp a great principle — that
while our thoughts produce our mental and moral
character in their action on ourselves , they help to
determine our human associates in the future by
their effects on others
...
We thus learn that our
desires in their action on ourselves produce our desire
- nature , and through it largely affect our physical
bodies in our next birth ; that they play a great part
in determining the place of rebirth ; and by their
effect on others they help to draw around us our
human associates in future lives
...
Broadly
speaking , the favorable or unfavorable nature of
the physical surroundings into which we are born
depends on the effect of our previous actions in
spreading happiness or unhappiness among other
people .
...
If bewildered
as to the path of right action by a conflict of apparent
duties , the knower of karma diligently tries to
choose the best path , using his reason and his
judgment to the utmost ; he is scrupulously careful about
his motive , eliminating selfish considerations and
purifying his heart ; then he acts fearlessly , and if
his action turn out to be a blunder he willingly
accepts the suffering which results from his mistake
as a lesson which will be useful in the future . Mean
while , his high motive has ennobled his character for
all time to come .
...

[Baile]

Originally Posted by baro-san

the knower of karma diligently tries to
choose the best path , using his reason and his
judgment to the utmost ; he is scrupulously careful about
his motive , eliminating selfish considerations and
purifying his heart ; then he acts fearlessly , and if
his action turn out to be a blunder he willingly
accepts the suffering which results from his mistake
as a lesson which will be useful in the future .

Yes, this is what I was saying really. Very nice, I relate to a lot of Theosophical theory.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by baro-san

You're trolling ...

Nah that would mean I'm annoying you on purpose. I'm just avoiding a certain topic that I don't think would go very well lol

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by shivatar

What would be the point of telling my ideas to someone who has their own already?

This seems to be an epidemic....one I am caught in the middle of.

When I mention anything about this, it's like; "you are closed-minded and not even prepared to listen"....well, neither are they.

In the end, I just gave up trying because the whole exercise is one in futility.

...and when I mention that, it becomes "whatever works for YOU and helps YOU sleep better at night". Then what is the use of talking to/with other people? There isn't any.

What WE need to do is to find people who have the same/similar ideas as US and stick to those people and stay there.

For example...JUST an example, if one were to believe the earth is flat, they would join the Flat Earth Society, not try to share their opinion with anybody else.

Trying to find like-minded people is difficult, but the best one can do is put their ideas/theories out there and if anybody is interested, they can look us up...they know where we live...