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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:40 PM
alcyone alcyone is offline
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Not breathing. (4th "Dyana"?)

So can someone explain to me what Dyana means?
I read that some monks can stop their breathing through meditation and reaching full growth in body, mind, thought, soul. (I think that's what it said) and thus getting to the 4th Dyana

What is a 4th Dyana? Can you tell me why an ordinary person that's not a monk would be able to stop their breathing for days and weeks and not die?

I tried looking it up on Google and could not find a definite answer.

Thank you.
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2017, 12:20 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Do you mean this?

Fourth Jhāna — The other half of bliss (happiness) disappears, leading to a state with neither pleasure nor pain, which the Buddha said is actually a subtle form of happiness (more sublime than pīti and sukha). The breath is said to cease temporarily in this state. The remaining qualities are: "a feeling of equanimity, neither pleasure nor pain; an unconcern due to serenity of awareness; unification of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity & attention -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism

You can read more there. Picking out one part of a whole context doesn't convey the practice and contemplation gained to this point, so you have to look deeper at a more inclusive context of Buddhism as I see it.
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2017, 05:42 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyawaywithme
So can someone explain to me what Dyana means?
I read that some monks can stop their breathing through meditation and reaching full growth in body, mind, thought, soul. (I think that's what it said) and thus getting to the 4th Dyana

What is a 4th Dyana? Can you tell me why an ordinary person that's not a monk would be able to stop their breathing for days and weeks and not die?

I tried looking it up on Google and could not find a definite answer.

Thank you.


If you stop breathing you die... monk or not monk.
If you look up Dhyana Meditation you will find lots of info:

Dhyana means meditation.
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  #4  
Old 10-01-2017, 04:35 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyawaywithme
So can someone explain to me what Dyana means?
I read that some monks can stop their breathing through meditation and reaching full growth in body, mind, thought, soul. (I think that's what it said) and thus getting to the 4th Dyana

What is a 4th Dyana? Can you tell me why an ordinary person that's not a monk would be able to stop their breathing for days and weeks and not die?

I tried looking it up on Google and could not find a definite answer.

Thank you.
Namaste. I happened to have written an article on Patanjali's Yoga aphorisms just the other day...see #7:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=108662

I have also experienced the 'breathless state' and your breath doesn't stop, you only take about 3-4 deep breaths per minute. You don't stop your breath to get to this state, your breath automatically slows right down while you are in it.

I achieve this state through a process called Trataka or fixed gazing. It's like a total mindfulness exercise all in itself.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...47&postcount=6

You can do Trataka on a candle flame, in between two mirrors (mirror tunnel), gaze into your own eyes into a mirror or just look behind your closed eyes and into the 'nothingness':

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...3&postcount=15

This is the practice called Dhyana - or 'total identification with 'object' - even if that 'object' is 'The Void'.

You won't find this stuff anywhere else on the internet, I can assure you. lol

Aum.
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  #5  
Old 10-01-2017, 05:31 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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I've been meditating and the breath came to be extremely slight and stopped, but because my mind went 'am I not breathing?' it started to move again. When the body goes into a deep relaxation, there is hardly any breath, and it could become so slight that you can't even feel it. You don't stop your breathing, or do anything about the breathing. The body knows how to breathe without anyone doing the breathing. Sometimes it can come to a standstill. I haven't sat with that breathlessness for long, though, as I said, I 'overthunk it'.

The other point about that state of no bliss or pleasure or pain is also very interesting, and I've touched on that a couple of times, but only when meditating on extended retreats, and I'm not sure if that can realistically be a continuous state in anyone's life - but I like to think so.

I have no Idea what Dyana means, though.
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  #6  
Old 10-01-2017, 05:37 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I've been meditating and the breath came to be extremely slight and stopped, but because my mind went 'am I not breathing?' it started to move again. When the body goes into a deep relaxation, there is hardly any breath, and it could become so slight that you can't even feel it. You don't stop your breathing, or do anything about the breathing. The body knows how to breathe without anyone doing the breathing. Sometimes it can come to a standstill. I haven't sat with that breathlessness for long, though, as I said, I 'overthunk it'.

The other point about that state of no bliss or pleasure or pain is also very interesting, and I've touched on that a couple of times, but only when meditating on extended retreats, and I'm not sure if that can realistically be a continuous state in anyone's life - but I like to think so.

I have no Idea what Dyana means, though.
It is exactly the same with me. As soon as I thought "I am not breathing", I started to breathe normally and at first I could stay in that state before I 'overthunk' it for only a minute or so. I have it between 10 and 15 minutes now and there is just nothing, nothing really there, but when you open your eyes again...it starts.

There's also a 'no pain' state I experience in intense Dhyan. where the brain overrides the pain with focused, one-pointed alternate awareness. It's how all this fire-walking stuff gets done imo.
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  #7  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:30 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I've been meditating and the breath came to be extremely slight and stopped, but because my mind went 'am I not breathing?' it started to move again. When the body goes into a deep relaxation, there is hardly any breath, and it could become so slight that you can't even feel it. You don't stop your breathing, or do anything about the breathing. The body knows how to breathe without anyone doing the breathing. Sometimes it can come to a standstill. I haven't sat with that breathlessness for long, though, as I said, I 'overthunk it'.

The other point about that state of no bliss or pleasure or pain is also very interesting, and I've touched on that a couple of times, but only when meditating on extended retreats, and I'm not sure if that can realistically be a continuous state in anyone's life - but I like to think so.

I have no Idea what Dyana means, though.


Yes I relate to this. I did the same thing when it first happened. Went "****e I am not breathing" and so then I breathed again..lol..The mind can be tricky in this space, cos we like to know we are breathing..

I love the hardly any/slight breath space, so deeply relaxing.
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  #8  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:39 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I actually think this would be a pretty common experience among those who do focused awareness/mindfulness meditation and have been doing it for a few years at least.

Still, I am ever aware that there's one more stage to go beyond this, so I am not really 'there yet'. I have kinda seen bits, like glimpses of it - but even if I thought I had reached Samadhi, Something would happen externally to make me sad or grumpy and I'm like "nope, not yet...not yet..."

I am bored of the whole 'astral playground' thing though and want to get serious now and I have a very good basis and foundation for it in both Patanjali and Buddha and Adi Shankaracharya and all of those ancient wonderful texts that outline the most basic and simple techniques for all this in the first place, until Neo-Hinduism came along and mucked around with it, spawning thousands of books from just 4 main ones.

I am an adherent to those 4 main ones....called The Vedas.
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  #9  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:55 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyawaywithme
Can you tell me why an ordinary person that's not a monk would be able to stop their breathing for days and weeks and not die?

I tried looking it up on Google and could not find a definite answer.

Thank you.
About that specific question, I put it 'out there' a while ago and just got this back.

When the breath slows down to 3-4 breaths/minute, it equals that of the giant land tortoise, second behind the African elephant in longevity.

Slowing down the breath will lead to a longer life - just look at cats and dogs who pant and die at 14-18 or whenever they do.

So it's not that they 'don't die' it's that they 'live longer beyond their allotted span and don't die prematurely'.

Something just got lost in translation over the millennia.
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  #10  
Old 10-01-2017, 07:34 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
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I did have this stop breathing experience that's when I felt attachment or holdback inside my body. I didn't do meditation, I just do it for relief of my inner discomfort.

I stop breathing for nearly can't stand anymore then I try to breathing a bit that's just one short slightly breath until my inner discomfort disappear totally. After that my feeling of relief is hold then my work is done. I may do it two times or continue to do or breathing and stop breathing just a few times until I was relief.

I don't know it will cause to be longer life or not and I more refer to sudden relief of inner discomfort.

But nowadays, I seldom practice this stop breathing techniques and I can use more than 10 types of healing myself.
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