Jesus Didn't Die For Our Sins

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Spirited

I know Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, I accept his sacrifice he made for me as full payment for my sins. I believe in God the Father and I also believe in the Holy Spirit. I believe we can know all 3/1 through faith. I respect that maybe you don't accept the free gift that is offered, and I wouldn't try to convert you. But your statement is an opinion that is only valid for the person who holds it. For me, there is no doubt in my mind that Jesus died for exactly that, and now, He lives! Hallelujah.

Sorry jojo, didn't mean to overlook your post, but I see that Spirited here is in reception of the Truth, and his answer is sufficient.

Kj, the "new heaven and new earth", as described in Peter obviously hasn't occurred yet.
Original sin still has it's effect in this material world.

Meanwhile, as explained prior, the "joy of the Lord" involves something established apart from "illusory" time and space.
From, "before the foundation of the world".

"The joy of the Lord is our strength".

"God inhabits the praises of His people".

[Spirited]

Originally Posted by kjw47

If you think Jesus died and covered all sin of those who serve him, then why did they have to die and pay the wages of sin themselves?
Acts 3:19 clearly teaches--Repentence is what gets sin blotted out.

I'm not aware of anyone who has ever died to pay for the wages of sin, aside from Jesus himself? Who is it you speak of when you say "they"? The disciples of Jesus died because the world hated them for standing firm in their faith. Just like in many parts of the world today people of our faith are still persecuted for their beliefs. They themselves did not die for our sins - how could they? They all had sins of their own.

Acts 3:19 is telling us that we must have a genuine heart. God knows that in our current state we will never live sin-free lives, we are always going to sin no matter how hard we try. That is our nature. His solution was Jesus. I would argue that to get to the state where one acknowledges his own sins and their need of a Saviour is in itself having a repentant heart that Acts 3:19 speaks about. The very definition of repent is "to feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin." - Something that comes naturally and is possessed by one who has acknowledged their state and has asked Jesus into their lives.

One can't know Jesus and happily live in sin. However, one can't live without sin as it's just not achievable. So, we live in our sin but are always fully repentant every day and trust the works that God has already done for us has met us half way - which it has!

If it was truly down to ourselves to live sin free then I tell you - not a single 1 person would ever be with God.

God bless.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Spirited

I'm not aware of anyone who has ever died to pay for the wages of sin, aside from Jesus himself? Who is it you speak of when you say "they"? The disciples of Jesus died because the world hated them for standing firm in their faith. Just like in many parts of the world today people of our faith are still persecuted for their beliefs. They themselves did not die for our sins - how could they? They all had sins of their own.

Acts 3:19 is telling us that we must have a genuine heart. God knows that in our current state we will never live sin-free lives, we are always going to sin no matter how hard we try. That is our nature. His solution was Jesus. I would argue that to get to the state where one acknowledges his own sins and their need of a Saviour is in itself having a repentant heart that Acts 3:19 speaks about. The very definition of repent is "to feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin." - Something that comes naturally and is possessed by one who has acknowledged their state and has asked Jesus into their lives.

One can't know Jesus and happily live in sin. However, one can't live without sin as it's just not achievable. So, we live in our sin but are always fully repentant every day and trust the works that God has already done for us has met us half way - which it has!

If it was truly down to ourselves to live sin free then I tell you - not a single 1 person would ever be with God.

God bless.

What can be observed in this is about the nature and origins of this world, involving "the Fall". Which also agrees with what modern Physics is telling us since Einstein.
Our "evolved" organic situation in "illusory" space/time.
Our origins, and actual situation involves the greater reality of the Spirit, and apart from time as we know it.
The Bible itself disregards time, involving prophetic verses, and I've asked about the "stars" in Revelation 12.
The identity thereof.

Originally Posted by Spirited

I'm not aware of anyone who has ever died to pay for the wages of sin, aside from Jesus himself? Who is it you speak of when you say "they"? The disciples of Jesus died because the world hated them for standing firm in their faith. Just like in many parts of the world today people of our faith are still persecuted for their beliefs. They themselves did not die for our sins - how could they? They all had sins of their own.

Acts 3:19 is telling us that we must have a genuine heart. God knows that in our current state we will never live sin-free lives, we are always going to sin no matter how hard we try. That is our nature. His solution was Jesus. I would argue that to get to the state where one acknowledges his own sins and their need of a Saviour is in itself having a repentant heart that Acts 3:19 speaks about. The very definition of repent is "to feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin." - Something that comes naturally and is possessed by one who has acknowledged their state and has asked Jesus into their lives.

One can't know Jesus and happily live in sin. However, one can't live without sin as it's just not achievable. So, we live in our sin but are always fully repentant every day and trust the works that God has already done for us has met us half way - which it has!

If it was truly down to ourselves to live sin free then I tell you - not a single 1 person would ever be with God.

God bless.

Each individual dies and pays the wages of sin.
Practice of sin or willfull sin is not covered.
Even those who repent of the sins God listed as unacceptable, still sin and end up-DEAD and pay their own wages. Because they do still sin. I believe that in the OT it states---Better is the day of ones deaththan their birth. I believe because one stops sinning at death.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

There is a certain disconnect in your response kj.
Including with what the old testament says about the joy of the Lord, and in the Messianic prophesies.

I asked about the joy of God's SALVATION, kj. You responded about things in our now future?
Because? Just as the Jews of Jesus time, the leaders that is, largely your message is about ego.
The common people however understood full well about genuine joy. Especially those who were in reception of His miracles.
And, regarding that, we are told in scripture, "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever!"
(Another scripture identifying Him with the Almighty.)

Why dont you share that joy--Can you? while you watch and see 99% being mislead to destruction. How much joy does that bring you?

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by kjw47

Why dont you share that joy--Can you? while you watch and see 99% being mislead to destruction. How much joy does that bring you?

Well first you speak of there being no hell, then of destruction.
Meanwhile, for those "who have ears to hear", that's what I have been doing. Sharing Truth, that leads to joy, kj!
I brought up entering into God's rest, prior. This involves SALVATION.
Jesus Himself stated, "Come unto me all you who are weary, and in need of rest. My yoke is easy, my burden LIGHT, and you will find rest for your souls."

So, I had asked you, "what about God's rest in your declarations, and message?"

Again, I pointed out how our heavenly Father went about establishing the sacrificial atoning practices, right after the perfect law was given through Moses.

Atonement.

Mercy and Grace.

[davidmartin]

Can anyone explain something to me?

Can the teachings of Jesus lead to salvation on their own? (in other words have the same effect as coming to him through belief in the atonement)

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

So, if the belief in the atonement has to be considered a literal requirement to salvation, it kind of makes the teachings of Jesus powerless to save, even though he had words of eternal life

This has always bothered me. It's a contradiction
I'm not suggesting if his words can save, the atonement isn't true but that both can be true

[Taneli]

Jesus Christ died because the true, One God wanted to sacrifice her soul and condemned her to incarnate on earth, which has been tens of thousands of years perverted by False God's spell of Demiurgi. She was male, because God always wants to sacrifice sons. Jesus Christ was mezmerized by Demiurgi's spell and so False God cheated Jesus to knee on him, to got him sacrifice himself on the cross, all for nothing. She's been in hell towards since but dont worry, i've saved her soul an she loves all mankind very very much.

Originally Posted by davidmartin

Can anyone explain something to me?

Can the teachings of Jesus lead to salvation on their own? (in other words have the same effect as coming to him through belief in the atonement)

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

So, if the belief in the atonement has to be considered a literal requirement to salvation, it kind of makes the teachings of Jesus powerless to save, even though he had words of eternal life

This has always bothered me. It's a contradiction
I'm not suggesting if his words can save, the atonement isn't true but that both can be true

davidmartin,

Not so much of a contradiction IMO. Ask yourself this: why do we believe the words? Is it just possible because He died intentionally?

Originally Posted by Spirited

I'm not aware of anyone who has ever died to pay for the wages of sin, aside from Jesus himself? Who is it you speak of when you say "they"? The disciples of Jesus died because the world hated them for standing firm in their faith. Just like in many parts of the world today people of our faith are still persecuted for their beliefs. They themselves did not die for our sins - how could they? They all had sins of their own.

Acts 3:19 is telling us that we must have a genuine heart. God knows that in our current state we will never live sin-free lives, we are always going to sin no matter how hard we try. That is our nature. His solution was Jesus. I would argue that to get to the state where one acknowledges his own sins and their need of a Saviour is in itself having a repentant heart that Acts 3:19 speaks about. The very definition of repent is "to feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin." - Something that comes naturally and is possessed by one who has acknowledged their state and has asked Jesus into their lives.

One can't know Jesus and happily live in sin. However, one can't live without sin as it's just not achievable. So, we live in our sin but are always fully repentant every day and trust the works that God has already done for us has met us half way - which it has!

If it was truly down to ourselves to live sin free then I tell you - not a single 1 person would ever be with God.

God bless.

A true follower may slip with a small sin, and some even do sins God will not accept willfully, or they are mislead into practing a sin. But at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11-- It makes the statement, That is what some of you were( past tense) Repentence is the stopping of the doing of a sin.
Even at 1 John 3-- it teaches who are Gods children, or who are the devils children. It makes the statement--- Its impossible for a child of God to practice even one sin.