Is the pre-birth soul/life plan real?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

I'm just pointing out how you seem to come from a place of strong intellect and intellect cannot know what is beyond it; until you are able to, it's pure conjecture - either direction, in my opinion.

JL

You quoted a post of mine that already provided the answer..
''Why assume more?'' questions the need for further intellectualization and searching for ''meaning''...

I find religious/spiritual people wondering about the Why does God do this? much more intellectualizing things than me. ;-)

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Altair

No, there is a cause. It could be the car is automatic, the person driving the car is drunk, or loses his control etc. There's a cause, but assuming there's a ''spiritual reason'' is from the realm of belief and an afterthought.

You now refer to a material cause, not a subtle cause. Denying "spiritual reasons" behind material events is as much a belief as affirming such "spiritual reasons". Whether you realise it or not, you are making your own assumptions.

Peace.

Originally Posted by Altair

You quoted a post of mine that already provided the answer..
''Why assume more?'' questions the need for further intellectualization and searching for ''meaning''...

I find religious/spiritual people wondering about the Why does God do this? much more intellectualizing things than me. ;-)

Well it's not a competition is it, Altair. And if you mean that I asked that, I didn't - it was a rhetorical.

Namaste,

JL

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

Well it's not a competition is it, Altair. And if you mean that I asked that, I didn't - it was a rhetorical.

Namaste,

JL

Spend as much time as you want on it. You may come up with God's Plan, karma, soul contracts etc. but you are the one intellectualizing it and trying to contemplate the ''reasons'' and ''mind'' of God..

It's quite ironic.. :-)

Originally Posted by Altair

Spend as much time as you want on it. You may come up with God's Plan, karma, soul contracts etc. but you are the one intellectualizing it and trying to contemplate the ''reasons'' and ''mind'' of God..

It's quite ironic.. :-)

I don't know who you are referring to but I don't do any of the above. What I do do, and have done, is learnt to smile - a lot. To sense peace and joy and love. To be granted the vision of insights, Gnosis, as many on this forum have. I put aside what I don't yet know "for myself" and leave the squabbling to those that remain interested.

As to people who write of such things, some might be reading it from somewhere, but others are granted knowledge beyond the human mind - this is where such origins come from. I'm not so interested in such things myself, but I've seen and experienced enough and intuited enough to not throw things out as much as I would have when I too was mired mostly within belief and what is possible, and what is not.

Blessings,

JL

[Altair]

Originally Posted by iamthat

You now refer to a material cause, not a subtle cause. Denying "spiritual reasons" behind material events is as much a belief as affirming such "spiritual reasons". Whether you realise it or not, you are making your own assumptions.

Peace.

No, it isn't ''denial'' when someone doesn't make assumptions about God's ''reasons'' or ''mind'', or a ''God's Plan''. That's not ''being in denial''. I explained it simply, if you don't follow then lets leave it at that.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

I don't know who you are referring to but I don't do any of the above. What I do do, and have done, is learnt to smile - a lot. To sense peace and joy and love. To be granted the vision of insights, Gnosis, as many on this forum have. I put aside what I don't yet know "for myself" and leave the squabbling to those that remain interested.

As to people who write of such things, some might be reading it from somewhere, but others are granted knowledge beyond the human mind - this is where such origins come from. I'm not so interested in such things myself, but I've seen and experienced enough and intuited enough to not throw things out as much as I would have when I too was mired mostly within belief and what is possible, and what is not.

Blessings,

JL

The interesting part is that people experience and see things that match their beliefs, backgrounds, expectations, etc.

Beyond the physical body and the intellect is the subtle/astral body, which is more 'emotional'. You think your beliefs are 'true' because of an experience yet you don't seem to see the world beyond ours is different, so nobody can project ''reasons'' or a ''God's Plan'' as a trump card for understanding spirituality. Nobody on this forum is ''in the right'' to use a meditation experience or an OOBE as a trump card for ''absolute truth'' or using an experience beyond the intellect as a means to understand and rationalize a ''Grand Predetermined God's Plan...''

Originally Posted by Altair

The interesting part is that people experience and see things that match their beliefs, backgrounds, expectations, etc.

Beyond the physical body and the intellect is the subtle/astral body, which is more 'emotional'. You think your beliefs are 'true' because of an experience yet you don't seem to see the world beyond ours is different, so nobody can project ''reasons'' or a ''God's Plan'' as a trump card for understanding spirituality. Nobody on this forum is ''in the right'' to use a meditation experience or an OOBE as a trump card for ''absolute truth'' or using an experience beyond the intellect as a means to understand and rationalize a ''Grand Predetermined God's Plan...''

I don't think you're paying attention - I haven't done any of whatever you are raving about - nor am I interested.

What I do believe though is you are firmly in the box of physicality - and perhaps the yoga loosens the edges of potentiality, but not too much..yet.

As to beliefs, no, that's the thing I didn't start with beliefs or even interest in spirituality, the spirituality came first - I followed the call.

Enough with your assumptions for one day perhaps.

Take care,

JL

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

I don't think you're paying attention - I haven't done any of whatever you are raving about - nor am I interested.

What I do believe though is you are firmly in the box of physicality - and perhaps the yoga loosens the edges of potentiality, but not too much..yet.

That is needlessly offensive.

Anyways. What I see you always do is enter a topic, avoid the subject of conversation, and focus on the person..

Maybe you should read OP and talk about the actual topic..
We want to talk about whether there's a pre-birth plan..

Originally Posted by janielee

As to beliefs, no, that's the thing I didn't start with beliefs or even interest in spirituality, the spirituality came first - I followed the call.

That's interesting because for me it began spontaneously, without me seeking or being interested in 'meditation', out-of-body experiences, etc. It happened, then I got curious. Cool for you and me, but we have a topic to discuss here, not our life's story. Having these experiences don't prove you or me ''in the right'' about understanding or knowing the ''Mind of God''...

Sorry if I have offended you, but I see this conversation is not going anywhere. You have consistently said that I am doing this or that, and believe this or that, and I have told you I have not many times, and here it arises again. I am not avoiding anything - I posted to speak about specific points, and have done so.

OOB experiences aren't spiritual in my definition. And as to the "Mind of God" presumably one would have to know God first to even speak of such things (for or against)

JL