What is enlightenment - the way to God

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ajay00

Obviously 'addiction' has a negative connotation , and implying that Nisarg was an addict, inspite of evidence to the contrary, is a clear case of prejudice and vilification.

There is nothing wrong with attachments or addictions .

What seems to be the point here is basically there is the understanding that peeps like niz can have addictions / attachments and it some how rubs you up the wrong way .

You need to loosen up a little .

All you need to do is understand the nature of attachment / habit / addiction but you don't because you are blinded by your idol .

All the negativity seems to be coming from your corner here .

Take stock man and take a deep breath and listen to what's being said instead of ranting on like a mad cleric .

x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ajay00

He is someone on a pedestal, whether you like it or not, and some tom, peter or harry who may have a different opiniion cannot come barging into the hinduism forum stating that Niz is an addict.

.

He is someone on a pedestal cos peeps put him on there .

Like said all that I and a few others have stated is what we believe is habitual and addictive behaviours .

You have and you still are blowing everything out of proportion because of your devotion .

You need to listen to what has been said .. and not get carried away with drama / fantasy .

You seem to be someone who loves seeing something that isn't actually there .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste.

I guess that I am looking for a purely logical, intellectual discussion without any emotional investment...problem is that I appear to be emotionally invested in having
that real 'deep and meaningful' chat about Hinduism on here.

It is very difficult to tell whether another is 'enlightened' irrespective of attachments, vices and whatever else...and in the end, the opinions of another do not matter to a Self realised soul..

Hope your mum is okay by the way, I did hear through the grapevine she was not well .

My mum passed 5 months ago and my dad just last week ..

What fun life is at times ..

But getting back to things, I understand and have read you speak of things before about there is not enough substance / depth for you here on the forums but that can't be helped lol ..

For myself I do know where another is coming from and I take each person like yourself from that place I know ..

Maybe your expectations here are a little high but never say never ..


x daz x

[sky]

Relinquish your habits and addictions, live a simple and sober life....
Nisargadatta.


I wonder was he referring to his own habits, do what I say not what I do sort of thing...

[sky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hope your mum is okay by the way, I did hear through the grapevine she was not well .

My mum passed 5 months ago and my dad just last week ..

What fun life is at times ..

But getting back to things, I understand and have read you speak of things before about there is not enough substance / depth for you here on the forums but that can't be helped lol ..

For myself I do know where another is coming from and I take each person like yourself from that place I know ..

Maybe your expectations here are a little high but never say never ..


x daz x

' My mum passed 5 months ago and my dad just last week '

My you have been through the mill recently. Condolences...

[Shanti Shanti]

"I am trying so hard to understand what Hinduism defines as ' Enlightenment ' You say that someone who has a ' Habit ' is unenlightened, in a previous post you said Nisargadatta used Tobacco for pleasure and when I asked you are ' Pleasures ' not attachments you refuse to answer so I am a little confused."

Enlightenment is a process and event. Like chopping down a tree. You are on the path towards enlightenment, chopping the tree of attachment of false selfhood and then finally the last swing and tree falls down, thats the event enlightenment. Even a enlightened master cannot described enlightenment. He / she can only point the way for you to discover. How can that be put in words ?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by ajay00

Addiction or mechanical habit indicates vasanas or egocentric impressions which indicates unconsciousness or unenlightenment.

I think its just that people have their issues, addiction, trauma etc, and enlightenment is more about you as you are rather than being a perfect person.

Its as simple as that. There is no standard involved in this and this is quite easy to understand.

The people giving judgements over here have superficial understanding of vedanta or yogic psychology, and are not Hindus to give such opinions in the hinduism forum, which obviously hurt Hindu sensibilities.

If non-muslims start criticizing Muhammad in the Islam forum it will obviously create a backlash.

I don't know anything about Hinduism but I read a little bit of Nis. I don't know him personally of course, but I would presume he had a nicotine addiction because nicotine is addictive, but he seemed to be OK with that and he lived his lifestyle in his own way. At least, it's not up to me to impose standards an enlightened one (or anyone else) should live up to, so to me, I don't care if he smoked, is addicted to nicotine or not. He speaks as an enlightened teacher and I just accept him as that.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Shanti Shanti

"I am trying so hard to understand what Hinduism defines as ' Enlightenment ' You say that someone who has a ' Habit ' is unenlightened, in a previous post you said Nisargadatta used Tobacco for pleasure and when I asked you are ' Pleasures ' not attachments you refuse to answer so I am a little confused."

Enlightenment is a process and event. Like chopping down a tree. You are on the path towards enlightenment, chopping the tree of attachment of false selfhood and then finally the last swing and tree falls down, thats the event enlightenment. Even a enlightened master cannot described enlightenment. He / she can only point the way for you to discover. How can that be put in words ?

Enlightenment is clearly being put into words on here, you have some stating that an ' Enlightened Master ' should not have ' Attachments ' when clearly a lot do have attachments or addictions /habits and enjoy the pleasures of substances/worldly goods etc:

Obviously 'Enlightenment ' and the qualities needed to be labeled ' Enlightened ' seems to vary from person to person or mybe it depends on your culture. We have many so called ' Enlightened Master ' who live an opulent lifestyle with all the pleasures most of their followers can only dream about, they use substances and clearly enjoy themselves while preaching the opposite to the outside world.

I personally don't have any problem with attachments or worldly pleasures as long as they are wholesome and don't hurt others, I know that nothing lasts forever and don't expect everything to remain the same.

To state that someone is ' Unenlightened ' because they do such and such a thing but then call some others ' Enlightened ' who clearly are breaking the rules set by some Scriptures as to what ' Enlightenment ' is confuses me.

It clearly is just a label that seems to vary or change to suit different individuals, I think what really matters is how you live your life and treat others.

You will know them by their fruits....

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sky123

' My mum passed 5 months ago and my dad just last week '

My you have been through the mill recently. Condolences...

Thanks sky .. it's the first time I have lost anyone close, no one can prepare you for that even though you know that they live on ..

In a way I am grieving 2 for 1 and in my own understanding I would rather have it all at once rather than drip fed lol .

It has been difficult and it has been interesting watching myself have my heart strings pulled left right and centre even though I am genuinely happy for them leaving this world .

I believe my mum going first made it easier to digest my dad passing, if I could deal with that I could deal with anything

I heard Gem say about when his dad passed it was a relief and I totally get that, don't know if you can relate or not but there is something about suffering and worry that eats away at peeps that is just awful ..

Fortunately I am working on myself daily and releasing any pain and bringing in the joy of our connection / relationship ..

I think what is important however much you loved them is to let them go .

I don't want to grieve for them, I want to be unconditionally happy for them ..


(cheers for the opportunity to say that)


x daz x

[sky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Thanks sky .. it's the first time I have lost anyone close, no one can prepare you for that even though you know that they live on ..

In a way I am grieving 2 for 1 and in my own understanding I would rather have it all at once rather than drip fed lol .

It has been difficult and it has been interesting watching myself have my heart strings pulled left right and centre even though I am genuinely happy for them leaving this world .

I believe my mum going first made it easier to digest my dad passing, if I could deal with that I could deal with anything

I heard Gem say about when his dad passed it was a relief and I totally get that, don't know if you can relate or not but there is something about suffering and worry that eats away at peeps that is just awful ..

Fortunately I am working on myself daily and releasing any pain and bringing in the joy of our connection / relationship ..

I think what is important however much you loved them is to let them go .

I don't want to grieve for them, I want to be unconditionally happy for them ..


(cheers for the opportunity to say that)


x daz x

I understand what you say about letting them go, to see people suffering and in pain and not be able to take it away from them is horrendous, it's a relief when they pass but still painful regardless.

I think we have to grieve before we can be happy for them, it takes time and they say time is a great healer. I presume you still have your Dads funeral to attend and that will bring back memories of your Mums, double heartache, no wonder Buddha said ' In life there is suffering '
Take care...