What is enlightenment - the way to God

[Nitiananda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5nzZEOm2YE

[sky]

Originally Posted by Nitiananda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5nzZEOm2YE

Buddha became ' Enlightened ' Buddhist don't believe in God....

[Nitiananda]

In Buddhism, there is no concept of a single God. The gods in Buddhism are a huge number. All beings above the level of the world of the Asuras are considered Gods.

[Shivani Devi]

Buddhism underwent a total reformation in the 12th century...about the same time that Buddha sorta 'became' an avatar of Lord Vishnu, to bring the religion of Buddhism back within the 'Hindu fold' to appeal to the totally uneducated and illiterate masses of the time.

In the contemporary Buddhist catechism, there is "no God" and "no Self" as it was pretty much the desire of Buddhists to bring the philosophy of Buddhism under the auspices of Advaita Vedanta which was also gaining notoriety around the same time to popularise it...and perhaps as a 'backlash' to all those gung-ho Vaishnavites who sought to place the preceptor of an atheist philosophy under the auspices OF a Hindu deity.

*reading the Akashic Records is fun...but I digress*

Before the reformation of Buddhist thought, those in Nepal and Tibet worshiped tribal deities...they worshiped Tutelary Deities or "Gods" and the most prevalent and significant of these, were the Hindu God(desses) Mahakaal (Bhairava) which is the 'terrible form' of Lord Shiva and also Dakini (Tara, Lolita) as being the 'Red Dakini" or Bhuvaneshwari which resides in the Muladhara Chakra...riding her Elephant or existing alongside Ganesha under the vibration of the bija "LAM".

So, when Buddhism came to Tibet, the populace was told "you can keep your beliefs, but also integrate ours" thus Vajrayana was born...along with Buddhist Tantra.

In the local dialect, the letter "B" is interchangeable with "V" and the suffix of "ava" became synonymous with "achana" and so, Bhairava became the "Adi Buddha" known as Vairochana...it's all quite long and convoluted.

Please compare the images of Kala Bhairava (Hinduism) with Maha Kala Bernagchen (Buddhism)...and for some reason, Google won't let me post images anymore...which sucks. lol

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Buddhism underwent a total reformation in the 12th century...about the same time that Buddha sorta 'became' an avatar of Lord Vishnu, to bring the religion of Buddhism back within the 'Hindu fold' to appeal to the totally uneducated and illiterate masses of the time.

In the contemporary Buddhist catechism, there is "no God" and "no Self" as it was pretty much the desire of Buddhists to bring the philosophy of Buddhism under the auspices of Advaita Vedanta which was also gaining notoriety around the same time to popularise it...and perhaps as a 'backlash' to all those gung-ho Vaishnavites who sought to place the preceptor of an atheist philosophy under the auspices OF a Hindu deity.

*reading the Akashic Records is fun...but I digress*

Before the reformation of Buddhist thought, those in Nepal and Tibet worshiped tribal deities...they worshiped Tutelary Deities or "Gods" and the most prevalent and significant of these, were the Hindu God(desses) Mahakaal (Bhairava) which is the 'terrible form' of Lord Shiva and also Dakini (Tara, Lolita) as being the 'Red Dakini" or Bhuvaneshwari which resides in the Muladhara Chakra...riding her Elephant or existing alongside Ganesha under the vibration of the bija "LAM".

So, when Buddhism came to Tibet, the populace was told "you can keep your beliefs, but also integrate ours" thus Vajrayana was born...along with Buddhist Tantra.

In the local dialect, the letter "B" is interchangeable with "V" and the suffix of "ava" became synonymous with "achana" and so, Bhairava became the "Adi Buddha" known as Vairochana...it's all quite long and convoluted.

Please compare the images of Kala Bhairava (Hinduism) with Maha Kala Bernagchen (Buddhism)...and for some reason, Google won't let me post images anymore...which sucks. lol

Buddhist would disagree that he was an avatar of Vishnu.

Then Mahamati said: If the Tathágatas are un-born, there does not seem to be anything to take hold of – no entity – or is there something that bears another name than entity? And what can that "something" be?

The Blessed One replied: Objects are frequently known by different names according to different aspects that they present, the god Indra is sometimes known as Shakra, and sometimes as Purandara. These different names are sometimes used interchangeably and sometimes they are discriminated, but different objects are not to be imagined because of the different names, nor are they without individuation. The same can be said of myself as I appear in this world of patience before ignorant people and where I am known by uncounted trillions of names. They address me by different names not realizing that they are all names of the one Tathágata. Some recognize me as Tathágata, some as the self-existent one, some as Gautama the Ascetic, some as Buddha. Then there are others who recognize me as Brahma, as Vishnu, as Ishvara; some see me as Sun, as Moon; some as a reincarnation of the ancient sages; some as one of "ten powers"; some as Rama, some as Indra, and some as Varuna. Still there are others who speak of me as The Un-born, as Emptiness, as "Suchness," as Truth, as Reality, as Ultimate Principle; still there are others who see me as Dharmakaya, as Nirvana, as the Eternal; some speak of me as sameness, as non-duality, as un-dying, as formless; some think of me as the doctrine of Buddha-causation, or of Emancipation, or of the Noble Path; and some think of me as Divine Mind and Noble Wisdom. Thus in this world and in other worlds am I known by these uncounted names, but they all see me as the moon is seen in the water. Though they all honor, praise and esteem me, they do not fully understand the meaning and significance of the words they use; not having their own self-realization of Truth they cling to the words of their canonical books, or to what has been told to them, or to what they have imagined, and fail to see that the name they are using is only one of the many names of the Tathágata. In their studies they follow the mere words of the text vainly trying to gain the true meaning, instead of having confidence in the one "text" where self-confirming Truth is revealed, that is, having confidence in the self-realization of noble Wisdom.

I can't remember where I read it but in one sutra the Buddha talks about being Brahma for a long time before he move beyond.

Interesting stuff.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Buddhist would disagree that he was an avatar of Vishnu.



I can't remember where I read it but in one sutra the Buddha talks about being Brahma for a long time before he move beyond.

Interesting stuff.

Namaste.

So now, it does get interesting!

The Vaishnavas state that Buddha was an avatar of Vishnu, but the Buddhists say that he was not, so who is correct and who is incorrect, or is it up to what we personally believe is the truth, irrespective of whether it was or not? This can also be said for basically everything in existence. lol

Are things which cannot be proven true, simply because we believe them to be so? even if another says that it is 'not true' and so, it will be 'not true' for them, but true for us? and where does the 'real truth' fit in, in these scenarios?

Aum Namah Shivaya

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste.

So now, it does get interesting!

The Vaishnavas state that Buddha was an avatar of or Vishnu, but the Buddhists say that he was not, so who is correct and who is incorrect, or is it up to what we personally believe is the truth, irrespective of whether it was or not? This can also be said for basically everything in existence. lol

Are things which cannot be proven true, simply because we believe them to be so? even if another says that it is 'not true' and so, it will be 'not true' for them, but true for us? and where does the 'real truth' fit in, in these scenarios?

Aum Namah Shivaya

True,

Do you believe in a God an all powerful being or that we can all be God?

Throwing in a Christian view :)

As we ascend to that which is more perfect, He who is without form or shape comes no longer without form or without shape. Nor does He cause His light to come to us and be present with us in silence. But how? He comes in a definite form indeed, though it is a divine one. Yet God does not show Himself in a particular pattern or likeness, but in simplicity, and takes the form of an incomprehensible, inaccessible, and formless light. We cannot possibly say or express more than this; still He appears clearly and is consciously known and clearly seen, though He is invisible. He sees and hears invisibly and, just as friend speaks to friend face to face (cf. Ex. 33:11), so He who by nature is God speaks to those whom by grace He has begotten as gods. He loves like a father, and in turn He is fervently loved by His sons.


Quote n° 3433 : Saint Symeon the New Theologian , (949 - 1022), Christianity, Orthodoxy
Source : The Discourses, p. 365, Trans. C.J. de Catanzaro. Ramsey, N.J.: Paulist Press, 1980.

Remember some of the old Brahma views were there was only one being. When the Buddha came he changed that view.

You can also look at things as levels.

Being Shiva is the realization of universal mind.

Realizing the emptiness of universal mind is a Buddha. The Tao Te Ching say's much the same thing.
The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.

The Tao being emptiness and the One being Universal Mind or One like Siva.

Also, why would you look to some other tradition to get an understanding on Buddhism and it's beliefs? What you are saying is more that tradition is trying to incorporate and validate it's own beliefs while dismissing the teachings of another.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

True,

Do you believe in a God an all powerful being or that we can all be God?

Throwing in a Christian view :)



Remember some of the old Brahma views were there was only one being. When the Buddha came he changed that view.

You can also look at things as levels.

Being Shiva is the realization of universal mind.

Realizing the emptiness of universal mind is a Buddha. The Tao Te Ching say's much the same thing.
The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.

The Tao being emptiness and the One being Universal Mind or One like Siva.

Of course I believe in God, but many do not. Does this mean that God exists only because I believe? or does not exist because others don't?

I could also say that Brahman exists as a 'universal Truth' as Sat...but that is still only a 'theory' until experientially realised, but the realisation cannot be proven either - not that it could ever be, or needs to be.

Is it really "emptiness" to say that all things arise from within it, when manifestation cannot come from 'nothing'...like the Big Bang? there must be 'something' from which 'other things' issue forth, no?

Aum Namah Shivaya

[winter light]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Buddhism underwent a total reformation in the 12th century...about the same time that Buddha sorta 'became' an avatar of Lord Vishnu, to bring the religion of Buddhism back within the 'Hindu fold' to appeal to the totally uneducated and illiterate masses of the time.

In the contemporary Buddhist catechism, there is "no God" and "no Self" as it was pretty much the desire of Buddhists to bring the philosophy of Buddhism under the auspices of Advaita Vedanta which was also gaining notoriety around the same time to popularise it...and perhaps as a 'backlash' to all those gung-ho Vaishnavites who sought to place the preceptor of an atheist philosophy under the auspices OF a Hindu deity.

*reading the Akashic Records is fun...but I digress*

Before the reformation of Buddhist thought, those in Nepal and Tibet worshiped tribal deities...they worshiped Tutelary Deities or "Gods" and the most prevalent and significant of these, were the Hindu God(desses) Mahakaal (Bhairava) which is the 'terrible form' of Lord Shiva and also Dakini (Tara, Lolita) as being the 'Red Dakini" or Bhuvaneshwari which resides in the Muladhara Chakra...riding her Elephant or existing alongside Ganesha under the vibration of the bija "LAM".

So, when Buddhism came to Tibet, the populace was told "you can keep your beliefs, but also integrate ours" thus Vajrayana was born...along with Buddhist Tantra.

In the local dialect, the letter "B" is interchangeable with "V" and the suffix of "ava" became synonymous with "achana" and so, Bhairava became the "Adi Buddha" known as Vairochana...it's all quite long and convoluted.

Please compare the images of Kala Bhairava (Hinduism) with Maha Kala Bernagchen (Buddhism)...and for some reason, Google won't let me post images anymore...which sucks. lol

I really appreciated this post of yours. It explains a feeling one gets that there is something wrong. But the whole system is setup such that one cannot question it. It sort of invalidates ones existence in a disturbing way. And it puts a secure barrier around anyone who attempts to see beyond so blocks from enlightenment.

I've met Tara in two forms. I'm sure of the White Tara. She teaches wisdom. I think the Green Tara is more about protection and coming to the aide of those who need assistance. Both have great love.

The reason I'm not sure about Green Tara is that I had no idea who she was at the time. What happened (years ago) is that I was going through some major shift and I just lied down to rest because I was overwhelmed. My ears were ringing and I was very stressed. Then all of a sudden I had no sense of a body. My body was just gone. I was shocked and thought that this is what it is like when you go psychotic. I was worried about when my family would find my body as I was living alone at the time. Whatever happened to it, there was nothing I could do about it now.

Then across from me there is this greenish female being yelling at me in some foreign language. I was like you've got to be kidding me. Now I have no body and someone yelling who I cannot understand. She was very insistent in a sort of caring way. She was trying to help. Why is she yelling at me?

The answer came as soon as I asked. Somehow I knew what she was saying. "Find your arms. Find your arms. Do it now!". Then I noticed my arms were next to me. I was relieved. But she was still yelling. "Find your hands! Put them together at your heart!" OK, OK, lady. So I did it. And as soon as my hands came together I noticed that my arms were by my side. I thought cool, those must have been my etheric arms and now I have my real arms. So I took the second set of arms and put those hands together at my heart.

Then yet a third set of arms appears! My physical arms. And my whole body came back. At felt so grateful at this point though now I felt kind of silly. But I did my part and put those hands together as well. And when I did there was a tremendous rush of energy and I was back.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by winter light

I really appreciated this post of yours. It explains a feeling one gets that there is something wrong. But the whole system is setup such that one cannot question it. It sort of invalidates ones existence in a disturbing way. And it puts a secure barrier around anyone who attempts to see beyond so blocks from enlightenment.

I've met Tara in two forms. I'm sure of the White Tara. She teaches wisdom. I think the Green Tara is more about protection and coming to the aide of those who need assistance. Both have great love.

The reason I'm not sure about Green Tara is that I had no idea who she was at the time. What happened (years ago) is that I was going through some major shift and I just lied down to rest because I was overwhelmed. My ears were ringing and I was very stressed. Then all of a sudden I had no sense of a body. My body was just gone. I was shocked and thought that this is what it is like when you go psychotic. I was worried about when my family would find my body as I was living alone at the time. Whatever happened to it, there was nothing I could do about it now.

Then across from me there is this greenish female being yelling at me in some foreign language. I was like you've got to be kidding me. Now I have no body and someone yelling who I cannot understand. She was very insistent in a sort of caring way. She was trying to help. Why is she yelling at me?

The answer came as soon as I asked. Somehow I knew what she was saying. "Find your arms. Find your arms. Do it now!". Then I noticed my arms were next to me. I was relieved. But she was still yelling. "Find your hands! Put them together at your heart!" OK, OK, lady. So I did it. And as soon as my hands came together I noticed that my arms were by my side. I thought cool, those must have been my etheric arms and now I have my real arms. So I took the second set of arms and put those hands together at my heart.

Then yet a third set of arms appears! My physical arms. And my whole body came back. At felt so grateful at this point though now I felt kind of silly. But I did my part and put those hands together as well. And when I did there was a tremendous rush of energy and I was back.

Namaste and thank you for taking the time to respond.

Most religions and philosophies are set up in such a way that adherents cannot question it - so it should come as no surprise that my treatises on Dharma remain hitherto unchallenged.

It must be that way however, because as soon as it is questioned...as soon as people begin to interpret it in their own way, put their own spin on it and tailor it to suit themselves, it makes Self-realisation or Enlightenment 'conditional' which, it is not. A lot of people will totally hate to hear that attachment to their family or spouse will still incur karma and it is not conducive to Moksha whatsoever - and that is why the Hindu Varnashramas (rites of passage) were established.

I mean, people love...just love to compartmentalise ideologies into the 'greater' and the 'lesser' or even the gunas of Rajas, Tamas and Sattva....but to exist beyond the identification with what is seen as 'good' and 'bad'...'lesser' or 'greater' (viz Mahayana and Hinayana in Buddhism) etc is what Samadhi is all about and in that, there is no room for tolerance...no room for compromise or personal validation...no matter how disturbing and scary it gets...because that is only the view of another who is still bound by Mithyatva (false worldly perceptions) and they will always try to sway others over to their path of adharma by using humanist truisms to justify an ignorant existence.

Karma Yoga is not about 'doing good/helping others' it is all about NOT doing...realising that God actually does everything and the thought of "I am doing" (no matter what activity is involved) is where Ahamkara (ego) comes into play.

When I worship Devi (the goddess) I also have preference for the Green or Red Tara over more stylised representations like Durga or Lakshmi...as I associate Devi with Shakti or raw power and Mahakali seems to be totally overdone and overepresented in that sense...but that is only a personal preference...just another aspect of that which comprises all aspects.

Aum Namah Shivaya