Arguing with an Atheist

Originally Posted by Gem

Maybe you're both wrong.

As in "no such thing as human nature?" Isn't 'wrong' disconnected from Isness?

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

Absolutely. But if they are winning the argument or disagree with my beliefs then they are no longer people anymore. They are monsters.

But yes, spirituality is often a label people give themselves as is atheist. Arguments take place when one or both take the labels too seriously.

I don't worry too much about beliefs, here today and gone tomorrow. The next day new information comes to light and they change, but wherever I am there I am.

[Altair]

There are two practical definitions of atheist. An atheist is either (1) someone who doesn't believe in personal gods, or (2) someone who doesn't believe in the existence of any spiritual phenomena of any kind, in other words a materialist..

Most people here are actually atheists if we go with the 1st definition..

There's really no point arguing about the existence of gods with either of them.. unless your faith DEMANDS you to convert others (Christian?? Muslim??). Treasure what unites you, don't waste time arguing over gods. Just look at it practically, where beliefs or non-belief lead to.. don't focus on the position itself but its effects.. What sort of fruits grow from the taken position?

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Possibly, an atheist who has neither seen nor wishes to explore ... rigid
&
A theist who has also not seen but is conditioned and so blindly believes ... frigid

Both may do well to be honest and open as agnostics

while

He who has ‘seen’ and so known, to whatever degree as shown ...

Has no need or desire to argue, neither needing validation nor indulging in persuasion

***

[EnlightenedPursuits]

If they are constantly trying to "convert" you, it seems that at least they find you appealing enough to interact with.

As long as they are not abusive, talking to someone with differing viewpoints will only help your personal development.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

As in "no such thing as human nature?" Isn't 'wrong' disconnected from Isness?

Probably, literally.


In Buddhism we have the terms right and wrong but they relate more to degrees of awareness, so 'wrong' is a derivative of ignorance (they know not what they do) and right is a derivative of wisdom. So, the path is 'right' starting with right morality (right motive, right action, right speech, right livelihood) through to the higher order (right efforts, right meditation and right view). We don't talk of God and it doesn't matter what religion anyone is, what anyone believes, or if they are atheists. The dhamma is universally true. EG, breath is true. There is no such thing as a Buddhist breath, Christian breath, Atheist breath and no one disagrees that there is breath. In this way, it really doesn't matter if one believes in God and another doesn't - it's true they are breathing regardless of any of that. One can go a long way just being aware of themselves breathing... by 'one' I mean anyone at all. You see how the discourse becomes universal quite quickly, and respective beliefs become asides?

[Gem]

P.S. I'm a bit of a Peterson fan, too, BTW.


OOPS wrong thread. ('wrong' being the key word teehee).

Originally Posted by zabrianne

I myself am a theist....

Is my involvment with this person toxic to my personal developement?

All situations are a perfect time to express the Love essence like a perfume.

[zabrianne]

Originally Posted by inavalan

You can't argument faith: faith that something is, or faith that something isn't. It's just FAITH.

well said.
thank you

[zabrianne]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

How you approach this situation is entirely up to you and tests your own beliefs, convictions and faith in your chosen path.

There are a few ways to approach it;

"Is the fact that I believe in God causing problems for you? kindly let me know if this issue is going to come between us as friends, so I can decide whether or not to continue here".

Then there is fogging... but this can only be done if one's faith is strong:
"Yeah, believing in God is silly and I am silly, but that won't stop me from believing in God".

It takes a lot of inner conviction to superficially agree with someone on the surface, but not to take any of it on board..."yes, you are right...not".

The other thing you can do is to ask them to prove God does NOT exist and all that will happen is them saying "no, you need to prove that He DOES" and again you say "no, you need to prove that he does NOT" and continue this childish game of "did not" and "did to" until either one gets tired/bored... and if you have enough reserves of patience when it comes to pi$$ing off other people, it will usually be your opponent who caves first.

"yeah and do you know what is sillier than someone who believes in God? another trying to convince them that God doesn't exist."

I love arguing with atheists... they end up getting angry, hostile and sweaty under the collar while I sit there as cool as a cucumber just going "is that so?"

My love for God and His love for me allows me to totally detach from all criticism.

It is a lot harder to do this with family, but that is still a work in progress for me and cutting ties is a serious consideration.

thank you for your response