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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

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  #11  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:09 PM
slave of Allaah
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I believe that the christian and jews who were not aware of that but they were sincere in obeying God such that if they knew the truth would follow it are all going to Heaven.

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (62)

God knows the heart of the people and He understand the motivation behind their behavior. No one will be lost if he was truely seeking the Truth.
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2011, 01:05 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROM
Did he say or do anything that would lead you to believe he was a fraud? From what the bible says, he was a great human being with no malicious intent. He was so dedicated to his teachings he even died for them. Now could you say the same about Satan?

That is a great question.

My fear is/was that Christ IS Satan and he tricked us into believing he is good and into believing he is God so that we turn to him and surrender - at which point he betrays us and takes us AWAY from God.

The whole crucifiction and the teachings may be an elaborate trick to mislead us away from God.

If we surrender to Christ, and Christ is in fact Satan, then we have surrendered to Satan.

It sounds like horrible and crazy paranoia I know. But it is these dark places my mind goes at times.
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The Humility, the Pride and the Humiliation.
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  #13  
Old 06-12-2011, 07:06 PM
Occultist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
In a roundabout way Jesus Christ claimed himself to be God just as much as Satan did. Perhaps they are the same person?

What is the difference between Christ calling himself God and Satan calling himself God?

Are they not both comitting blasphemy?
Good question but as a person who studies judaism I am assuming cause it was in the judaism thread do you believe in a Satan?. I mean Temple teaches of false prophets I had one Rabbi even tell me Yeshua might have been just a misunderstood Rabbi.
But I am very familiar with this claim. But many people will just blinding start throwing biblical scriptures at you instead of try to figure or debunk this mystery for that I am sorry and I due recommend you talk to your Rabbi.
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2011, 08:21 PM
Mayflow
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Many believe that the book of Job is the oldest Biblical book. In it, Satan is not the same as most think of today.

The Satan of the Biblical book "Job":

Job's Satan
In the Book of Job, ha-Satan is a member of the divine council, "the sons of God" who are subservient to God. Ha-Satan, in this capacity, is many times translated as "the prosecutor", and is charged by God to tempt humans and to report back to God all who go against His decrees. At the beginning of the book, Job is a good person "who feared God and turned away from evil" (Job 1:1), and has therefore been rewarded by God. When the divine council meets, God informs ha-Satan about Job's blameless, morally upright character. Between Job 1:9–10 and 2:4–5, ha-Satan merely points out that God has given Job everything that a man could want, so of course Job would be loyal to God; if all Job has been given, even his health, were to be taken away from him, however, his faith would collapse. God therefore grants ha-Satan the chance to test Job.[11] Due to this, it has been interpreted that ha-Satan is under God's control and cannot act without God's permission. This is further shown in the epilogue of Job in which God is speaking to Job, ha-Satan is absent from these dialogues. "For Job, for [Job's] friends, and for the narrator, it is ultimately Yahweh himself who is responsible for Job's suffering; as Yahweh says to the 'satan', 'You have incited me against him, to destroy him for no reason.'" (Job 2:3) [7]
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  #15  
Old 06-12-2011, 08:51 PM
Mayflow
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
RabbiO: try and see this sub-forum as an integrated part of the whole SF. It is inevitable that threads and posts will overlap as they discuss various parts of spirituality and what they relate to.

This whole FORUM is a spiritual place - not a religious place. I'm sure there are Judaic RELIGION forums. But SF is different because IT BREAKS THE DIVIDING LINES BETWEEN RELIGIONS DOWN. Not builds them up.

You need to let this Judaic Sub Forum BREATH!


May I take this a bit further and post an interesting talk in the Buddhist sub forum - I already addressed the Biblical question on the Judaic forum as to how Satan was presented in the book of Job as a tempter, but still only able to tempt as that God would allow...
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2011, 08:53 PM
Occultist
Posts: n/a
 
Hebrew bible doesnt even recognize him as Satan of Christianity he was a “the accuser,” or “the adversary" is a member of the divine council and really has no power other then the power God Yewah bestowed on him.
But I think Christians will have a different view because of culture and teachings.
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:55 PM
TeeHee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
That is a great question.

My fear is/was that Christ IS Satan and he tricked us into believing he is good and into believing he is God so that we turn to him and surrender - at which point he betrays us and takes us AWAY from God.

The whole crucifiction and the teachings may be an elaborate trick to mislead us away from God.

If we surrender to Christ, and Christ is in fact Satan, then we have surrendered to Satan.

It sounds like horrible and crazy paranoia I know. But it is these dark places my mind goes at times.

I had that thought once, many years ago and found a similar thought in a few popular cults and heresies. Matter of fact that thought came to me when struggling with an substance abuse problem, an addiction. Yea, it was paranoia.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:59 PM
TeeHee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
RabbiO: try and see this sub-forum as an integrated part of the whole SF. It is inevitable that threads and posts will overlap as they discuss various parts of spirituality and what they relate to.

This whole FORUM is a spiritual place - not a religious place. I'm sure there are Judaic RELIGION forums. But SF is different because IT BREAKS THE DIVIDING LINES BETWEEN RELIGIONS DOWN. Not builds them up.

You need to let this Judaic Sub Forum BREATH!

And where has that got you over the years?
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2011, 10:22 PM
TeeHee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayflow
May I take this a bit further and post an interesting talk in the Buddhist sub forum - I already addressed the Biblical question on the Judaic forum as to how Satan was presented in the book of Job as a tempter, but still only able to tempt as that God would allow...

Here's a thought, God is not always present to bless. And we know as you mentioned earlier that in the book of Job Satan was used as an apparatus of the heavenly court. Diabolos-- which means slanderer.
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  #20  
Old 06-12-2011, 11:23 PM
Gracey
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to me honza, they are two sides of the same coin.
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