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16-12-2017, 04:27 AM
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Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 937
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iamit
It may not be clear how NA may assist seekers depending on the character of the seeker.
The basis is as always the concept All is One. It may be that it has been encountered many times during the search but the vibration frequency of the seeker has not been on the same wavelength as the concept for various reasons. One such reason may be that the seeker has been inclined towards/focused on/considering the numerous paths and practises on offer which state that there is a distance between seeker and sought. This focus is not surpising as such solutions to the search are by far in the majority.
NA is the only solution that states there is already no distance between seeker and sought no matter what state the seeker is already in. Exploring this option may be attractive to seekers who have become dissolutioned with paths and practises or are characters who lack the discipline for such, or you may have always had a feeling that the solution to the search is that all is perfect and complete just as it already is.
Should any of that apply to you it may lead to a feeling of despair that nothing works for you, but that is exactly the place in which the concept All is One may resonate.
Nisargadatta said many things but he also said to one questioner in such a state of despair to trust him when he said that his state of despair was already a most benefictial state in which he may be able to see that he was already what he sought. Such is the essence of Neo Advaita.
Good luck
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This is like painting a picture of a cake and telling people that they are already full.
It's dishonest and unfortunate.
As I said in a prior post:
I think the NA topic is certainly not an issue of West or East or Traditional Advaita-Vedanta v Neo-Advaita or popularity more v less or personality differences etc. as posited ad nauseum by Iamit here on these forums.
To imagine it is is to have taken the bait, in my opinion.
The key, fundamental difference is really are the teachings as promulgated genuine and fulsome spiritual teachings or not? i.e. Do they advance the highest teachings/Truths found in a number of religions: Buddhism, Sufism, Advaita-Vedanta, mystical Christianity, Daoism etc.
There is no mindset of popularity, culture or religion here, IMO. You have to remember that Advaita-Vedanta and many other religions co-exist very peacefully and harmoniously; some would say co-operatively too - you help him and I will help her and we will meet at the same place out there, beyond these categories - high five!
The only reason that this so called Neo-Advaita issue is being responded to is because it is simply a shallow imitation of any genuine spiritual tradition, and it is baited to attract the simple minded, ignorant, or those that just don't know, and yet are {sincerely} looking for some spiritual guidance and relief. Unfortunately its effects range from long term ignorance (given that it does not actually generate meaningful deep insights) to more corruption (such as when some people think that they don't, or perhaps other people, don't 'really' exist, and/or All is One anyway so 'whatever' I do is fine, and/or that their 'feeling of disconnection' has ended when it is far from having done so)
i.e the original intention from the insight of genuine teachers (in the Advaita-Vedanta and other religions which Neo-Advaita piggy backs off of) cannot help but be nigh inevitably corrupted - through the NA channel.
You see, what is so tricky and pseudo-smart about the so-called NA writings is that they utilize some "truths" discovered in (let's use for this example) Advaita-Vedanta, and also piggy back off the same terminology. So, to the untrained eye and heart, it has semblances of truth in it.
To piggy back off Jyotir's example of Paris, they describe the sights of the Eiffel Tower (having piggy backed off of the travellers' actual journey) using similar words, they can describe the bridges, the people, the vibrant taste of its cuisine {mmm croissants!!} and so parts of it could be true {if it were really true}.
But this remains very different to the actual reaching of said destination, which is what the original Adepts did reach and used words to "hint at" and best {within the capacity of words, which is inherently limited} provide a flavor of the possible.
Furthermore, genuine spirituality goes beyond a trip in that the transformation and journey cannot help but change the individual - sort of like the characteristics of a genuine pilgrim, who is forged in and through the fires of Truth/Search - there is a distinctively different taste and flavor in such people experientially and also through their insights and spiritual development.
As you know the spiritual tradition is nothing but a journey back to Source (which no-one has left, but which still requires some effort to deeply realize and manifest).
Neo-Advaita is nothing but a forgery in that regard, stunting the very people it could have helped, by promulgating views such as there is nothing to do, nothing to realize and "you've hit the vibration jackpot if you can believe All is One now". By short-circuiting the very search, journey and practice that leads people to these inner realizations and experiences, it belies the very intention, depth and authenticity of the original Adepts/Masters' sharings. It stunts spiritual growth perhaps for a long, long time until Grace steps in.
In Zen there is a saying: "Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters."
No-one in Zen graduates without years of intensive practice, lifelong practice and yet the destination is inevitably sweet because the realizations are the fruition of the work that was put in.
Finally, Iamit's own discourse shows another level of conceit in that it attracts people who are "tired of being told they are not good enough" or "at least I don't have to change a thing now". It suits personalities who are perhaps tired and not feeling so good, and want to feel that things are enough. I definitely sympathize with that, and wish such people well. There is no need for anyone to feel unworthy and I also have never seen that message in any other tradition - but people obviously interpret messages differently. Iamit also mentioned suffering still exists - well, compare that to the Adepts
So anyway, in conclusion, the classification and context of discussion is not a "versus" - whether that's people, culture, modernity, personality, or religion, as Iamit would like to put it, it's a simple case of fraudulent activity masking as the real deal. That is the pertinent point and pivot of discussion. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but at least people deserve to know - hey this ain't Europe!
Thank you for reading,
BT
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16-12-2017, 10:35 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by blossomingtree
This is like painting a picture of a cake and telling people that they are already full.
It's dishonest and unfortunate.
As I said in a prior post:
I think the NA topic is certainly not an issue of West or East or Traditional Advaita-Vedanta v Neo-Advaita or popularity more v less or personality differences etc. as posited ad nauseum by Iamit here on these forums.
To imagine it is is to have taken the bait, in my opinion.
The key, fundamental difference is really are the teachings as promulgated genuine and fulsome spiritual teachings or not? i.e. Do they advance the highest teachings/Truths found in a number of religions: Buddhism, Sufism, Advaita-Vedanta, mystical Christianity, Daoism etc.
There is no mindset of popularity, culture or religion here, IMO. You have to remember that Advaita-Vedanta and many other religions co-exist very peacefully and harmoniously; some would say co-operatively too - you help him and I will help her and we will meet at the same place out there, beyond these categories - high five!
The only reason that this so called Neo-Advaita issue is being responded to is because it is simply a shallow imitation of any genuine spiritual tradition, and it is baited to attract the simple minded, ignorant, or those that just don't know, and yet are {sincerely} looking for some spiritual guidance and relief. Unfortunately its effects range from long term ignorance (given that it does not actually generate meaningful deep insights) to more corruption (such as when some people think that they don't, or perhaps other people, don't 'really' exist, and/or All is One anyway so 'whatever' I do is fine, and/or that their 'feeling of disconnection' has ended when it is far from having done so)
i.e the original intention from the insight of genuine teachers (in the Advaita-Vedanta and other religions which Neo-Advaita piggy backs off of) cannot help but be nigh inevitably corrupted - through the NA channel.
You see, what is so tricky and pseudo-smart about the so-called NA writings is that they utilize some "truths" discovered in (let's use for this example) Advaita-Vedanta, and also piggy back off the same terminology. So, to the untrained eye and heart, it has semblances of truth in it.
To piggy back off Jyotir's example of Paris, they describe the sights of the Eiffel Tower (having piggy backed off of the travellers' actual journey) using similar words, they can describe the bridges, the people, the vibrant taste of its cuisine {mmm croissants!!} and so parts of it could be true {if it were really true}.
But this remains very different to the actual reaching of said destination, which is what the original Adepts did reach and used words to "hint at" and best {within the capacity of words, which is inherently limited} provide a flavor of the possible.
Furthermore, genuine spirituality goes beyond a trip in that the transformation and journey cannot help but change the individual - sort of like the characteristics of a genuine pilgrim, who is forged in and through the fires of Truth/Search - there is a distinctively different taste and flavor in such people experientially and also through their insights and spiritual development.
As you know the spiritual tradition is nothing but a journey back to Source (which no-one has left, but which still requires some effort to deeply realize and manifest).
Neo-Advaita is nothing but a forgery in that regard, stunting the very people it could have helped, by promulgating views such as there is nothing to do, nothing to realize and "you've hit the vibration jackpot if you can believe All is One now". By short-circuiting the very search, journey and practice that leads people to these inner realizations and experiences, it belies the very intention, depth and authenticity of the original Adepts/Masters' sharings. It stunts spiritual growth perhaps for a long, long time until Grace steps in.
In Zen there is a saying: "Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters."
No-one in Zen graduates without years of intensive practice, lifelong practice and yet the destination is inevitably sweet because the realizations are the fruition of the work that was put in.
Finally, Iamit's own discourse shows another level of conceit in that it attracts people who are "tired of being told they are not good enough" or "at least I don't have to change a thing now". It suits personalities who are perhaps tired and not feeling so good, and want to feel that things are enough. I definitely sympathize with that, and wish such people well. There is no need for anyone to feel unworthy and I also have never seen that message in any other tradition - but people obviously interpret messages differently. Iamit also mentioned suffering still exists - well, compare that to the Adepts
So anyway, in conclusion, the classification and context of discussion is not a "versus" - whether that's people, culture, modernity, personality, or religion, as Iamit would like to put it, it's a simple case of fraudulent activity masking as the real deal. That is the pertinent point and pivot of discussion. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but at least people deserve to know - hey this ain't Europe!
Thank you for reading,
BT
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I'd be happy to converse with you once you have sorted out your projection issues which lead you to that sort of smearing post misrepresented as disagreement.
I'll wait till then before replying again. An indication of what you need to work on can be found in what you smear in others because you have been conditioned to believe (rejection/punishment) is unacceptable in yourself.
Good luck with that:)
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16-12-2017, 10:58 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by blossomingtree
This is like painting a picture of a cake and telling people that they are already full.
It's dishonest and unfortunate.
As I said in a prior post:
I think the NA topic is certainly not an issue of West or East or Traditional Advaita-Vedanta v Neo-Advaita or popularity more v less or personality differences etc. as posited ad nauseum by Iamit here on these forums.
To imagine it is is to have taken the bait, in my opinion.
The key, fundamental difference is really are the teachings as promulgated genuine and fulsome spiritual teachings or not? i.e. Do they advance the highest teachings/Truths found in a number of religions: Buddhism, Sufism, Advaita-Vedanta, mystical Christianity, Daoism etc.
There is no mindset of popularity, culture or religion here, IMO. You have to remember that Advaita-Vedanta and many other religions co-exist very peacefully and harmoniously; some would say co-operatively too - you help him and I will help her and we will meet at the same place out there, beyond these categories - high five!
The only reason that this so called Neo-Advaita issue is being responded to is because it is simply a shallow imitation of any genuine spiritual tradition, and it is baited to attract the simple minded, ignorant, or those that just don't know, and yet are {sincerely} looking for some spiritual guidance and relief. Unfortunately its effects range from long term ignorance (given that it does not actually generate meaningful deep insights) to more corruption (such as when some people think that they don't, or perhaps other people, don't 'really' exist, and/or All is One anyway so 'whatever' I do is fine, and/or that their 'feeling of disconnection' has ended when it is far from having done so)
i.e the original intention from the insight of genuine teachers (in the Advaita-Vedanta and other religions which Neo-Advaita piggy backs off of) cannot help but be nigh inevitably corrupted - through the NA channel.
You see, what is so tricky and pseudo-smart about the so-called NA writings is that they utilize some "truths" discovered in (let's use for this example) Advaita-Vedanta, and also piggy back off the same terminology. So, to the untrained eye and heart, it has semblances of truth in it.
To piggy back off Jyotir's example of Paris, they describe the sights of the Eiffel Tower (having piggy backed off of the travellers' actual journey) using similar words, they can describe the bridges, the people, the vibrant taste of its cuisine {mmm croissants!!} and so parts of it could be true {if it were really true}.
But this remains very different to the actual reaching of said destination, which is what the original Adepts did reach and used words to "hint at" and best {within the capacity of words, which is inherently limited} provide a flavor of the possible.
Furthermore, genuine spirituality goes beyond a trip in that the transformation and journey cannot help but change the individual - sort of like the characteristics of a genuine pilgrim, who is forged in and through the fires of Truth/Search - there is a distinctively different taste and flavor in such people experientially and also through their insights and spiritual development.
As you know the spiritual tradition is nothing but a journey back to Source (which no-one has left, but which still requires some effort to deeply realize and manifest).
Neo-Advaita is nothing but a forgery in that regard, stunting the very people it could have helped, by promulgating views such as there is nothing to do, nothing to realize and "you've hit the vibration jackpot if you can believe All is One now". By short-circuiting the very search, journey and practice that leads people to these inner realizations and experiences, it belies the very intention, depth and authenticity of the original Adepts/Masters' sharings. It stunts spiritual growth perhaps for a long, long time until Grace steps in.
In Zen there is a saying: "Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters."
No-one in Zen graduates without years of intensive practice, lifelong practice and yet the destination is inevitably sweet because the realizations are the fruition of the work that was put in.
Finally, Iamit's own discourse shows another level of conceit in that it attracts people who are "tired of being told they are not good enough" or "at least I don't have to change a thing now". It suits personalities who are perhaps tired and not feeling so good, and want to feel that things are enough. I definitely sympathize with that, and wish such people well. There is no need for anyone to feel unworthy and I also have never seen that message in any other tradition - but people obviously interpret messages differently. Iamit also mentioned suffering still exists - well, compare that to the Adepts
So anyway, in conclusion, the classification and context of discussion is not a "versus" - whether that's people, culture, modernity, personality, or religion, as Iamit would like to put it, it's a simple case of fraudulent activity masking as the real deal. That is the pertinent point and pivot of discussion. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but at least people deserve to know - hey this ain't Europe!
Thank you for reading,
BT
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Check out the statement by N. Was he being fraudulent to say that in general satsang? The guy was at his wits end, certainly not an adept as you like to think are the only folk the direct approach applies too.
I guess its not so easy for you and your fellow TA cohorts here to smear Nisargadatta
:)
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18-12-2017, 05:40 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by blossomingtree
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Yes you like to misrepresent your smearing as disagreement but its easily seen through.
I notice its so easy for you to smear N as fraudulant for his direct approach:) |
20-12-2017, 04:23 AM
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Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 937
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes you like to misrepresent your smearing as disagreement but its easily seen through.
I notice its so easy for you to smear N as fraudulant for his direct approach:)
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We all hope that you will be happy one day, Iamit  |
20-12-2017, 10:59 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by blossomingtree
We all hope that you will be happy one day, Iamit |
Yes we know you like to post that sort of nonsense. What about the question whether N was being fraudulent to use the direct approach or is your tail firmly between your legs on that one?
Hilarious:) |
21-12-2017, 12:46 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by blossomingtree
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Yes you keep posting that stuff. But what about a direct reply to the Nisargadatta question right here? Was he fraudulent to use the direct approach? Come on you can do it. Try and smear him if you can. You can run but you cant hide. All can see your avoidance of the question.
:) :) :) |
21-12-2017, 03:06 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,128
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes you keep posting that stuff. But what about a direct reply to the Nisargadatta question right here? Was he fraudulent to use the direct approach? Come on you can do it. Try and smear him if you can. You can run but you cant hide. All can see your avoidance of the question.
:) :) :)
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What was the question again?
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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