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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2017, 04:12 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Practice

As far as I can see, everybody is practicing (in the full sense of the word.) Most are practicing, rehearsing, reinforcing the normalised, accepted version of separation - emergent in early childhood and reinforced by society at every turn. Habits of mind work very hard to keep this particular misapprehension in place. We could call this ‘default practice’.

In the spiritual context, the practice that interests me is non-practice. By this I mean the act of disrupting or halting this default practice in its tracks.

There are various means by which this can come about. Meditation, self-inquiry, illumination, koan, a shock to the system, meetings etc. Sometimes it occurs when the mind is at the end of its tether and it just gives up. Sometimes it can happen in the presence of those who are free of default reinforcement.

Of course it’s all Oneness at play - whether it be the default practice of reinforcing the delusion of separation or the practice that cuts through that. Neither one can be considered preferable - unless there is an interest in or impulse towards liberation from the false (the default delusion of separation.)
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:21 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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It all depends on the seeker and the efficiency of means.

In your context and example, meditation and self-inquiry can be seen as a practice provided they are practiced regularly, until practice becomes doing without any thought of 'having to do it'.

Also, as an example, those who follow any path, have certain practices relating to it, so they will keep moving along that path and not just sitting down on that path thinking they have already 'got there' when the road ahead stretches out for miles before them.

I know myself, if I wish to have the experience of darshan (presence) of Shiva, I must work at it and not just do 'whatever I like' with only the knowledge that Shiva/Oneness is always there regardless of what I do, even though I know this is the case, and yet I cannot feel/experience it.

It's like I need to at least make some kind of effort and Shiva always meets me 'half way'....but if I get into bad habits, neglect my Sadhana (spiritual practice) and just do what I feel like when I feel like it...neglecting my meditation, yoga, diet, sleep hygiene and become lazy and stuck with just 'knowing' Shiva is there without any movement in regards, I always get the message "Yeah, you do that! come find me again when you're gonna take this whole thing seriously and stop goofing off...I'll still be here".

Practice is meant to turn our minds and hearts towards the goal...to turn the mind inwards or to the purpose, realisation of that goal we set for ourselves. Do you think a soccer player will just stand there, staring at the ball when the goal is in sight? yeah, everybody around will go "you idiot! what are you waiting for? kick the bloody thing already!" and 'coach God' will say "you're outta there!"

It's one thing to become complacent within a realisation...yeah, I know and you know it's all "Oneness at play" but to actually go behind, beyond the Oneness itself...that takes practice!

There's a favourite saying of mine:

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  #3  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:05 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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The weirdest thing?

After I just typed that up, I felt like a cuppa Joe....but not any old cup...it had to be one from the 7/11 store around the corner.

Now, I am one who is totally in tune with the whole 'synchronicity' bit...right down to everything that happens externally as an internalisation.

Mindfulness is a constant 'practice' for me and so now it is second nature.

So, guess what was playing on the store radio as I walked through the door to grab my coffee?

https://genius.com/Ricky-martin-the-...version-lyrics

Quote:
[Intro]
Do you really want it ... (Yeah!)
Do you really want it ... (Yeah!)
Do you really want it ... (Yeah!)

Go, go, go! (Go, go, go!)
Ale, Ale, Ale! (Ale, Ale, Ale!)
Go! (Go!)
Go! (Go!)
Go! (Go!) Go! (Go!)
Here we go! Yeah!

[Verse 1]
The Cup of Life
This is the one
Now is the time
Don't ever stop
Push it along
Gotta be strong
Push it along
Right to the top

The feelin' in your soul
Is gonna take control
Nothing can hold you back
If you really want it
I see it in your eyes
You want the cup of life
Now that the day is here
Gotta go and get it
Do you really want it ... (Yeah!)
Do you really want it ... (Yeah!)

Here we go! Ale, Ale, Ale!
Go, go, go! Ale, Ale, Ale!
Tonight's the night we're gonna celebrate
The cup of life... Ale, Ale, Ale!

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  #4  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:36 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Of course it’s all Oneness at play

So is murder then. This lack of differentiation is problematic in spiritual matters. Just because everything is God, it doesn't mean that we should maim or that a beginner is an adapt. The shortcut of it's all Oneness is ironically for the more advanced of practitioners, but of course with the advent of the internet, everyone wants to believe it is applicable.

“Those who do not understand the division of these two realities (Absolute and Relative) do not understand the profound true reality of the Buddha’s teaching. Without reliance on conventions, the ultimate cannot be taught. Without realization of the ultimate, Nirvana will not be attained.”'

Nagarjuna
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  #5  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:42 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
As far as I can see, everybody is practicing (in the full sense of the word.) Most are practicing, rehearsing, reinforcing the normalised, accepted version of separation - emergent in early childhood and reinforced by society at every turn. Habits of mind work very hard to keep this particular misapprehension in place. We could call this ‘default practice’.

In the spiritual context, the practice that interests me is non-practice. By this I mean the act of disrupting or halting this default practice in its tracks.

There are various means by which this can come about. Meditation, self-inquiry, illumination, koan, a shock to the system, meetings etc. Sometimes it occurs when the mind is at the end of its tether and it just gives up. Sometimes it can happen in the presence of those who are free of default reinforcement.

Of course it’s all Oneness at play - whether it be the default practice of reinforcing the delusion of separation or the practice that cuts through that. Neither one can be considered preferable - unless there is an interest in or impulse towards liberation from the false (the default delusion of separation.)

I see it as everyone is living the life that they want to; some people are interested in art, music, food; some are interested in spirituality.

In Buddhist terms when one has aroused the intention of enlightenment/compassion, Bodhicitta, then the forms that one undertakes to reach that ultimate goal is called practice. At the beginning these include more formal modes of practice (in the tradition that you may practice in there is zazen, koans, shikantaza, reflection and inquiry), and in the end these remain important for more reasons than one, particularly when one realizes what a koan really is.

Stopping what you call "default practice" (to switch to your terminology) is a cursory practice, stopping it momentarily offers some glimpses but requires substantively more momentum; but it's what happens after all that that is most very interesting. My 2c.

BT
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2017, 01:32 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
As far as I can see, everybody is practicing (in the full sense of the word.) Most are practicing, rehearsing, reinforcing the normalised, accepted version of separation - emergent in early childhood and reinforced by society at every turn. Habits of mind work very hard to keep this particular misapprehension in place. We could call this ‘default practice’.

In the spiritual context, the practice that interests me is non-practice. By this I mean the act of disrupting or halting this default practice in its tracks.

There are various means by which this can come about. Meditation, self-inquiry, illumination, koan, a shock to the system, meetings etc. Sometimes it occurs when the mind is at the end of its tether and it just gives up. Sometimes it can happen in the presence of those who are free of default reinforcement.

Of course it’s all Oneness at play - whether it be the default practice of reinforcing the delusion of separation or the practice that cuts through that. Neither one can be considered preferable - unless there is an interest in or impulse towards liberation from the false (the default delusion of separation.)

In the sense that the word practise isi used in the context of the spiritual search, it refers to a method of covering the distance between the seeker and sought.

TA cofirms that burden and the distance between seeker and sought.

NA removes that burden and rejects the idea that there is any distance between seeker and sought, that the seeker is already what is sought exactly as the seeker already is, including not realizing!

Both have a place depending on what suits the seeker.
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  #7  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:00 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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In essence, TA also confirms that there is no distance between seeker and sought, but to actually existentially realise that, beyond mere conception and contemplative process, requires more of an effort beyond just existing within that realisation instead of experientially realising it.
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2017, 05:55 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
In essence, TA also confirms that there is no distance between seeker and sought, but to actually existentially realise that, beyond mere conception and contemplative process, requires more of an effort beyond just existing within that realisation instead of experientially realising it.

Yes agreed that is the position of TA.

For those who see the destination as the end of feeling disconnected, the TA position you describe is irrelevant because it is already Oneness manifesting as the seeker who has not realized.

That experience may not be seen as of any value by TA but that does not mean it is of no value to those experiencing it.
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2017, 06:07 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes agreed that is the position of TA.

For those who see the destination as the end of feeling disconnected, the TA position you describe is irrelevant because it is already Oneness manifesting as the seeker who has not realized.

That experience may not be seen as of any value by TA but that does not mean it is of no value to those experiencing it.
What is Oneness?
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2017, 06:23 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
What is Oneness?

When I use the term it is not meant to indicate some sort of entity but rather that, despite the very convincing, solid looking appearance of difference, All is One. And that all is included and nothing excluded, including all aspects of self and the manifestation we see around us.

And that disconnection from Oneness is impossible, that nothing can be done to increase connection to Oneness for it is already completely All There Is.
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