Love me you will

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

Charming someone to make your image and affectation to be desirable for someone to be attached to you is not authentic love and is unsustainable because it is an illusion. Love is greater than an exchange of desires; it is the recognition of yourself in another and in all things that transcends the limited understanding and beliefs of the ego. Love is not merely an energy to be projected or acquired but a realization of WHO and WHAT you are at the center of your Being, your own Divinity. If you want LOVE, look no further than what you really are and what lies within you. When this occurs, your cup will be overflowing with LOVE and you no longer need to wander around like a psychic vampire to beg or manipulate others to give you illusive scraps of validation, attention, affection, and energy. YOU ARE LOVE itself completely transcendent and eternally SELF-sustaining.

Imzadi,

Thank you so much.......this is the closest expression to defining the nature of true love.....IMO. My understanding is this: I begin with the premise that God is love. There is no other source of love. Just because there are 7 billion people in the world does not mean there are 7 billion sources of love. To errantly believe such is to accept duality. The existence of the ego convinces us that we are separate one from another. Because we sense this separateness we seek to find love in others.......we believe that we can bestow love on others. You are quite correct in referencing the divinity that is within us(the God that is inherently within us) as being the true source of love. Once we understand this there can be no manipulation to either feel love or to give love. It simply becomes the acceptance and recognition of our own divinity and the divinity of others. In reality it as simplistic as is our acceptance of the sun. It is there....we accept that without question. It should be the same with love except that the ego blinds us to that which is inherent to all of us.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Kerubiel ask the rhetoric question of "Who doesn't want to be loved?" I would suggest probably many people if they really understand what authentic love is. I visualize authentic love as being a bestowal of grace. Sort of like the Christian debate of whether salvation is obtained by grace or by works. I tend to think that a lot of people who say they desire love really mean they desire to viewed as 'worthy' of love......a sub-conscious acknowledgement that love should result via works. If instead I view authentic love emanating from an act of grace I realize that all of my faults have been laid bare or made visible or logically assumed and that any subsequent love has been made possible by forgiveness. At my age, I tend to have more certainty of the love that I feel for others rather than the love that I feel from others. Do not misinterpret me.......perceived and felt love is wonderful but is not absolutely required by me. Maybe what I am perceiving as being love from others could possibly be just admiration, agreement etc. Maybe they do not know me deeply enough to be aware of my faults, shortcomings, etc. and have not been moved to the point of forgiveness to me.

Thanks for this reflection.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Imzadi,

Thank you so much.......this is the closest expression to defining the nature of true love.....IMO. My understanding is this: I begin with the premise that God is love. There is no other source of love. Just because there are 7 billion people in the world does not mean there are 7 billion sources of love. To errantly believe such is to accept duality. The existence of the ego convinces us that we are separate one from another. Because we sense this separateness we seek to find love in others.......we believe that we can bestow love on others. You are quite correct in referencing the divinity that is within us(the God that is inherently within us) as being the true source of love. Once we understand this there can be no manipulation to either feel love or to give love. It simply becomes the acceptance and recognition of our own divinity and the divinity of others. In reality it as simplistic as is our acceptance of the sun. It is there....we accept that without question. It should be the same with love except that the ego blinds us to that which is inherent to all of us.

+1 Thanks Imzadi.

[CrystalSong]

Kerubiel, you might want to go introduce yourself in the Twin Flame forum section here, there are a number of people there who are not aware that black magic can be used to usurp the minds of others and are thus in much pain and danger.
You would be doing them a huge eye-opening service, call it an act of love for your fellow mankind, if you would explain to them that you have countless times forced others to fall in love with you using unseen forces and what an incredible high it is for both parties to have this happen....(at least for a little while.)

[Kerubiel]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

You are I believe not understanding Love. When we are with someone (sex) all sorts of chemicals are released which cause a loving feeling, also energy is exchanged bringing the two people energetically closer together. That already itself is natures way of manipulating us to bring more life into the world.

So when you say you can remove your influence from the person after they fall in love with you to see what love is really there you are fooling yourself and will not know under all the pheromones and chemicals and your influence. Everything has already been altered so much that Truth can't be known.

Again I say to you, you are walking a dark path when you seek to manipulate others to do your bidding. And when you use magic to do it - it is a very dark path indeed. This Is Not how you want to be loved - it is a hollow empty way to gain what you think you want with a karmic price tag that's gonna bite hard someday.
You want to be loved from a place of authentic truth with the other person having their full will - not as an energy hostage.

Yeah you are right, love remains after you have planted the initial seeds of it. I have stopped intending to be loved and have begun a real approach with women. I know I am lovable and have great qualities to offer a woman and so will play on my strengths.

One of the reasons I am giving up on the commands of love is because I realised it was wrong. I had commanded a wife (i didnt know she was married) to fall in love with me. After examining this I felt very bad and thought if I could intend this guys wife to fall in love with me even tho she is married then what am I doing in the name of love? I am ruining love itself. Not to mention I do want someone to fall in love with me naturally, and want to be loved for valid reasons that are worthy of being loved, not just because I say so. That's cheating.

I will use my commands, however, on people to make them more loving in platonic ways to each other. More caring, kind, compassionate etc. I think this gift should not be left to waste but should be put to good use.

[Kerubiel]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

Charming someone to make your image and affectation to be desirable for someone to be attached to you is not authentic love and is unsustainable because it is an illusion. Love is greater than an exchange of desires; it is the recognition of yourself in another and in all things that transcends the limited understanding and beliefs of the ego. Love is not merely an energy to be projected or acquired but a realization of WHO and WHAT you are at the center of your Being, your own Divinity. If you want LOVE, look no further than what you really are and what lies within you. When this occurs, your cup will be overflowing with LOVE and you no longer need to wander around like a psychic vampire to beg or manipulate others to give you illusive scraps of validation, attention, affection, and energy. YOU ARE LOVE itself completely transcendent and eternally SELF-sustaining.

Oh I am not a vampire. I have given love to other's as well and not just to myself. I want to put my gift to good use. I provide real feelings of love and not just an illusion. See when you are intending or willing an outcome you must be specific in your workings. If you intend or will illusions then illusions are what you will get. You must intend real feelings of love in order to generate real feelings of love. I do it to myself too. I command myself to fall in love and I do. I command platonic love as well. I say it simply like "I can easily fall in love with her" then sure enough that makes it easy to do so.

Everyone told me love can not be forced. I realised that indeed everything is knowledge and knowledge is power. If you intend that love can not be forced then you close the door to this possibility. I wanted, coming form a place of no love, to be able to create love where there was none. Create feelings where there were none. So I examined love and found myself only loving things, and people, that i have previously made the decision to love. Like I love happy people, and I love strong women. I love this and that and this and that. All these ideas came together and created the energy body, and the heart. Each heart is different. We all love different things. Well by examining these things I became able to control them. I began stating facts like I can love this now, even tho i didnt before. Sure enough I began loving those new things. After that I became aware that love could actually be commanded and so I won. I knew that love could be examined and found a way to control. Let let love flourish?! Yes indeed, but I will not forget the lessons I have learned along the way. "Women love this, and that and this and that etc etc etc." "I am lovable because of this and that and this and that etc etc etc" Positive affirmations, positive awareness, positive knowledge equals positive attractions.

[Kerubiel]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Kerubiel, you might want to go introduce yourself in the Twin Flame forum section here, there are a number of people there who are not aware that black magic can be used to usurp the minds of others and are thus in much pain and danger.
You would be doing them a huge eye-opening service, call it an act of love for your fellow mankind, if you would explain to them that you have countless times forced others to fall in love with you using unseen forces and what an incredible high it is for both parties to have this happen....(at least for a little while.)

Oh I wouldnt call it black magic. It is creating love where there was no love before. Its like putting on make-up and creating attraction. It's like saying and believing that you can be loved when previously you thought you couldnt. You emit a higher frequency and now are intending and willing the act of being loved. If I say to myself this woman will love my personality because I am very charming etc, is that so wrong and "black". That is all I have done.

[davidsun]

I very appreciate your out-in-the-open self-examine-ingness K, as well as the integrity of your quest.

Here is a quote [copied from http://www.tekgnostics.com/JUAN.HTM] from Carlos Castaneda, about four 'enemies' met on The Path of Knowledge, which I think pertains to us all. I thought what he says about the third enemy, 'power', might be of special interest to you (at this point):

"When a man starts to learn, he is never clear about his objectives. His purpose is faulty; his intent is vague. He hopes for rewards that will never materialize, for he knows nothing of the hardships of learning. "He slowly begins to learn... bit by bit at first, then in big chunks. And his thoughts soon clash. What he learns is never what he pictured, or imagined, and so he begins to be afraid. Learning is never what one expects. Every step of learning is a new task, and the fear the man is experiencing begins to mount mercilessly, unyieldingly. His purpose becomes a battlefield.

"And thus he has tumbled upon the first of his natural enemies: Fear!

A terrible enemy... treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling... waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest."
"What will happen to the man if he runs away in fear?"
"Nothing happens to him except that he will never learn. He will never become a man of knowledge. He will perhaps be a bully or a harmless, scared man; at any rate, he will be a defeated man. His first enemy will have put an end to his cravings."
"And what can he do to overcome fear?"
"The answer is very simple. He must not run away. He must defy his fear, and in spite of it he must take the next step in learning, and the next, and the next. He must be fully afraid, and yet he must not stop. That is the rule! And a moment will come when his first enemy retreats. The man begins to feel sure of himself. His intent becomes stronger. Learning is no longer a terrifying task. "When this joyful moment comes, the man can say without hesitation that he has defeated his first natural enemy."

"Does it happen at once, don Juan, or little by little?"
"It happens little by little, and yet the fear is vanquished suddenly and fast."
"But won’t the man be afraid again if something new happens to him?"
"No. Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity... a clarity of mind which erases fear. By then a man knows his desires; he knows how to satisfy those desires. He can anticipate the new steps of learning, and a sharp clarity surrounds everything. The man feels that nothing is concealed.

"And thus he has encountered his second enemy: Clarity!

That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. "It forces the man never to doubt himself. It gives him the assurance he can do anything he pleases, for he sees clearly into everything. And he is courageous because he is clear, and he stops at nothing because he is clear. But all that is a mistake; it is like something incomplete. If the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his second enemy and will fumble with learning. He will rush when he should be patient, or he will be patient when he should rush. And he will fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learning anything more."


"What becomes of a man who is defeated in that way, don Juan? Does he die as a result?"
"No, he doesn’t die. His second enemy has just stopped him cold from trying to become a man of knowledge; instead, the man may turn into a buoyant warrior, or a clown. Yet the clarity for which he has paid so dearly will never change to darkness and fear again. He will be clear as long as he lives, but he will no longer learn, or yearn for, anything."

"But what does he have to do to avoid being defeated?"
"He must do what he did with fear: he must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently and measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think, above all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. And a moment will come when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his eyes. And thus he will have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him any more. This will not be a mistake. It will not be only a point before his eyes. It will be true power. "He will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. He can do with it whatever he pleases. His ally is at his command. His wish is the rule. He sees all that is around him.

But he has also come across his third enemy: Power!

"Power is the strongest of all enemies. And naturally the easiest thing to do is to give in; after all, the man is truly invincible. He commands; he begins by taking calculated risks, and ends in making rules, because he is a master. "A man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man."

"Will he lose his power?"
"No, he will never lose his clarity or his power."
"What then will distinguish him from a man of knowledge?"
"A man who is defeated by power dies without really knowing how to handle it. Power is only a burden upon his fate. Such a man has no command over himself, and cannot tell when or how to use his power."
"Is the defeat by any of these enemies a final defeat?"
"Of course it is final. Once one of these enemies overpowers a man there is nothing he can do."
"Is it possible, for instance, that the man who is defeated by power may see his error and mend his ways?"
"No. Once a man gives in he is through."

"But what if he is temporarily blinded by power, and then refuses it?"
"That means his battle is still on. That means he is still trying to become a man of knowledge. A man is defeated only when he no longer tries, and abandons himself."
"But then, don Juan, it is possible that a man may abandon himself to fear for years, but finally conquer it?"
"No, that is not true. If he gives in to fear he will never conquer it, because he will shy away from learning and never try again. But if he tries to learn for years in the midst of his fear, he will eventually conquer it because he will never have really abandoned himself to it."

"How can he defeat his third enemy, don Juan?"
"He has to defy it, deliberately. He has to come to realize the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. He must keep himself in line at all times, handling carefully and faithfully all that he has learned. If he can see that clarity and power, without his control over himself, are worse than mistakes, he will reach a point where everything is held in check. He will know then when and how to use his power. And thus he will have defeated his third enemy.

"The man will be, by then, at the end of his journey of learning... and almost without warning he will come upon the last of his enemies: Old age!

This enemy is the cruelest of all, the one he won’t be able to defeat completely, but only fight away. "This is the time when a man has no more fears, no more impatient clarity of mind... a time when all his power is in check, but also the time when he has an unyielding desire to rest. If he gives in totally to his desire to lie down and forget, if he soothes himself in tiredness, he will have lost his last round, and his enemy will cut him down into a feeble old creature. His desire to retreat will overrule all his clarity, his power, and his knowledge.

"But if the man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate through, he can then be called a man of knowledge, if only for the brief moment when he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. That moment of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough."

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

+1 Thanks Imzadi.

+1 more = 3 Thanks's Imzadi

[CrystalSong]

Originally Posted by Kerubiel

Yeah you are right, love remains after you have planted the initial seeds of it. I have stopped intending to be loved and have begun a real approach with women. I know I am lovable and have great qualities to offer a woman and so will play on my strengths.

One of the reasons I am giving up on the commands of love is because I realised it was wrong. I had commanded a wife (i didnt know she was married) to fall in love with me. After examining this I felt very bad and thought if I could intend this guys wife to fall in love with me even tho she is married then what am I doing in the name of love? I am ruining love itself. Not to mention I do want someone to fall in love with me naturally, and want to be loved for valid reasons that are worthy of being loved, not just because I say so. That's cheating.

I will use my commands, however, on people to make them more loving in platonic ways to each other. More caring, kind, compassionate etc. I think this gift should not be left to waste but should be put to good use.

This sounds much more reasoned. It's good to see you are thinking this through more now :)