What is Enlightenment?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

The central nervous system is the brain and spinal cord, it is the physical level, while the sushumna is a subtle channel, not physical, it cannot be seen by x-rays or on the operating table or post mortem as the brain and spinal cord can be. Lung is a Tibetan reference to an energy that can flow in the subtle channels, translated as 'wind', again Lung is subtle, and cannot be seen on the physical level.

Yes the sushumna is located in the same place as the cns.

Lung or wind is the term for energy, Hinduism it is called Prana.

If you do some research you will find the terms interchanged quite often.

For example:

Tsalung (Skt: nadi-vayu; Tib. rtsa rlung; where "rtsa" denotes an energetic channel) are special yogic exercises.

The exercises are used:

to open major chakrad and
to bring the lung from the side channels into the central channel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung_(Tibetan_Buddhism)

Or very brief:

So, using the breath in coordination with the mind, we are able to engage in selective purification of a particular channel in our nervous system that plays a leading role in the rise of enlightenment. This channel is the tiny thread-like nerve that runs up inside the spine and through the brain. It is called the "sushumna." Purifying and opening this nerve is where pranayama and additional advanced yoga practices will be focused.

One can read some really good lessons at AYP... All of the lessons are free and you can really learn a lot.

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by Krosser

What is Enlightenment?
I just want to see your definitions of it.

At night or in darkness, turn on lights or light up candle, than you will see. Because you can see, you will know, learn, change your self into a better person. After you become a new person, that's enlightenment.
But if you turn on lights or light up candle only to see for your own knowledge, that's not enlightenment.

[running]

Originally Posted by django

Experience, silence, bliss, they can all be driven by ego and attachment, and they can all continue to feed the ego, so I agree they are not an indicator of enlightenment or spiritual attainment.

To me enlightenment would have to include unconditional love and profound intuitive knowledge though.

What your saying doesn't make any sense to bliss and silence. There is no coming and going. If there is then that is in the process. Which is good but not there yet. Being there means there is nothing that is experienced without it. There is no two. There is only one. Ego or no ego as percieved by whomever has nothing to do with it. Sense you cant be without it. It is causeless or you could say unconditional.

Im not saying what is enlightenment. Im talking about the bliss and silence. The thing that seems is is a common denominator from tradition to tradition.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

At night or in darkness, turn on lights or light up candle, than you will see. Because you can see, you will know, learn, change your self into a better person. After you become a new person, that's enlightenment.
But if you turn on lights or light up candle only to see for your own knowledge, that's not enlightenment.

Agreed...it's all part of the spiritual progression of humanity, of the collective. And many modern masters also speak of this need to engage and apply from the perspective of awareness, service, and a heart-led consciousness, from what I call authentic love, which seeks the highest good of all.

The one thing to consider is that everyone is at a different place on their paths, and one needs to be at a particular place on their own path before he/she is ready to integrate more fully and engage more fully.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by django

Experience, silence, bliss, they can all be driven by ego and attachment, and they can all continue to feed the ego, so I agree they are not an indicator of enlightenment or spiritual attainment.

To me enlightenment would have to include unconditional love and profound intuitive knowledge though.

Yea it's interesting and such an old religious and philosophical argument. The debate within Christianity over what is more important, faith ( belief that Jesus is the son of God) verses works (if you are actually a good person in your actions) went on for centuries. That movie "The Name of the Rose" took place in 1327 when Catholic monks were gathering to debate this very thing.

This same ancient philosophical debate goes on today. For example, when somebody meditates for 4 hours a day, everyday, yet they drive home and yell at other drivers in traffic and don't really change. The "faith" here is their belief in their practice of meditation and their "works" is how they behave in life.

All "spiritual" practices have to change the "person" to actually be about spirituality. They have to make a person more moral, less selfish, less egotistical, more humble, less judgmental, more kind and good and more at peace within and without. More selfless.

Krishnamurti says a lot about how seeking experience is not important:
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishna...p?t=Experience

What one seeks is a new way of being. Not here is my "spiritual" time or practice and here in my normal life. The now is where it all is.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Yes the sushumna is located in the same place as the cns.

Lung or wind is the term for energy, Hinduism it is called Prana.

If you do some research you will find the terms interchanged quite often.

For example:

Tsalung (Skt: nadi-vayu; Tib. rtsa rlung; where "rtsa" denotes an energetic channel) are special yogic exercises.

The exercises are used:

to open major chakrad and
to bring the lung from the side channels into the central channel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung_(Tibetan_Buddhism)

Or very brief:

So, using the breath in coordination with the mind, we are able to engage in selective purification of a particular channel in our nervous system that plays a leading role in the rise of enlightenment. This channel is the tiny thread-like nerve that runs up inside the spine and through the brain. It is called the "sushumna." Purifying and opening this nerve is where pranayama and additional advanced yoga practices will be focused.

One can read some really good lessons at AYP... All of the lessons are free and you can really learn a lot.

Tsalung (Skt: nadi-vayu; Tib. rtsa rlung; where "rtsa" denotes an energetic channel) are special yogic exercises.

The exercises are used:

to open major chakrad and
to bring the lung from the side [energetic] channels into the central [energetic] channel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung_(Tibetan_Buddhism)

That Yogani believes the CNS is equivalent to sushumna tells me he has no spiritual knowledge whatsoever, and if his students then also believe this and start to quote it, it is very unfortunate.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

Tsalung (Skt: nadi-vayu; Tib. rtsa rlung; where "rtsa" denotes an energetic channel) are special yogic exercises.

The exercises are used:

to open major chakrad and
to bring the lung from the side [energetic] channels into the central [energetic] channel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung_(Tibetan_Buddhism)

That Yogani believes the CNS is equivalent to sushumna tells me he has no spiritual knowledge whatsoever, and if his students then also believe this and start to quote it, it is very unfortunate.

Why didn't you bold the word central?

Here:

“By the practice of Pranayama, the purification of the Nadis, the brightening of the gastric fire, hearing distinctly of spiritual sounds and good health result. When the nervous centres have become purified through the regular practice of Pranayama, the air easily forces its way up through the mouth of the Sushumna

Excerpt From: Sivananda, Swami. “The Science of Pranayama.”

Some more:

“Sushumna is the most important of all the Nadis. It is the sustainer of the universe and the path of the universe and the path of salvation. Situated at the back of the anus, it is attached to the spinal column and extends to the Brahmarandhra of the head and is invisible and subtle. The real work of a Yogi begins when Sushumna begins to function. Sushumna runs along the centre of the spinal cord or spinal column.”

Excerpt From: Sivananda, Swami. “The Science of Pranayama.”

Maybe another source.

IDĀ arises in the left side of the body and represents the moon principle
PINGALĀ begins on the right side of the body and symbolises the sun principle.
SUSHUMNĀ runs through the central channel of the spinal cord and represents the consciousness.

On the physical level PINGALĀ has its counterpart in the Parasympathetic Nervous System, IDĀ in the Sympathetic Nervous System, and SUSHUMNĀ in the Central Nervous System.

https://www.chakras.net/yoga-principles/16-nadis

Swamiji:

Between the ganglion of ribes and the ganglion impar: Ida and Pingala flow between these two points and are in constant contact with the nervous system and the central channel of the subtle spine. While one may meditate on the ajna chakra, the upper joining point noted above, there is also great utility in meditation practices that move up and down along this central channel between these two points. This can have a tremendous effect on balancing the energies, calming the mind, and allowing the Prana to flow through the central channel of Sushumna.

http://www.swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-3.htm

Hope that helps.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Why didn't you bold the word central?

Here:

“By the practice of Pranayama, the purification of the Nadis, the brightening of the gastric fire, hearing distinctly of spiritual sounds and good health result. When the nervous centres have become purified through the regular practice of Pranayama, the air easily forces its way up through the mouth of the Sushumna

Excerpt From: Sivananda, Swami. “The Science of Pranayama.”

Some more:

“Sushumna is the most important of all the Nadis. It is the sustainer of the universe and the path of the universe and the path of salvation. Situated at the back of the anus, it is attached to the spinal column and extends to the Brahmarandhra of the head and is invisible and subtle. The real work of a Yogi begins when Sushumna begins to function. Sushumna runs along the centre of the spinal cord or spinal column.”

Excerpt From: Sivananda, Swami. “The Science of Pranayama.”

Maybe another source.

IDĀ arises in the left side of the body and represents the moon principle
PINGALĀ begins on the right side of the body and symbolises the sun principle.
SUSHUMNĀ runs through the central channel of the spinal cord and represents the consciousness.

On the physical level PINGALĀ has its counterpart in the Parasympathetic Nervous System, IDĀ in the Sympathetic Nervous System, and SUSHUMNĀ in the Central Nervous System.

https://www.chakras.net/yoga-principles/16-nadis

Swamiji:

Between the ganglion of ribes and the ganglion impar: Ida and Pingala flow between these two points and are in constant contact with the nervous system and the central channel of the subtle spine. While one may meditate on the ajna chakra, the upper joining point noted above, there is also great utility in meditation practices that move up and down along this central channel between these two points. This can have a tremendous effect on balancing the energies, calming the mind, and allowing the Prana to flow through the central channel of Sushumna.

http://www.swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-3.htm

Hope that helps.

Sushumna is the central subtle energy channel. Its counterpart on the physical level is the Central Nervous System. They share the same space, one as part of the energy body, one as part of the physical body. The physical level can affect the subtle level and vice versa, this is what Swami Sivananda refers to when he says to purify the nervous system, as he believes this leads to purification of the energy channels. Swamij refers to something similar, that the subtle energy channels are in constant contact with the physical nervous system.

Referring to sushumna as the central channel is not meant to imply that sushumna is the physical central nervous system, but the central subtle energy channel. There would be millions of quotes referring to sushumna as the central channel, but they are discussing the central channel of the subtle energy body.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

Sushumna is the central subtle energy channel. Its counterpart on the physical level is the Central Nervous System. They share the same space, one as part of the energy body, one as part of the physical body. The physical level can affect the subtle level and vice versa, this is what Swami Sivananda refers to when he says to purify the nervous system, as he believes this leads to purification of the energy channels. Swamij refers to something similar, that the subtle energy channels are in constant contact with the physical nervous system.

Referring to sushumna as the central channel is not meant to imply that sushumna is the physical central nervous system, but the central subtle energy channel. There would be millions of quotes referring to sushumna as the central channel, but they are discussing the central channel of the subtle energy body.

Yes that is what I have been saying.

The words are often interchangeable when teachers are explaining the location.

I did not say that any were in reference to the actual physical body but that the physical body location of the nerve is often used.

Your quote is exactly what I have been saying.

Thank you.

[RyanWind]

Jiddu Krishnamurti On Kundalini:

K: So long as self-centered activity exists, you cannot touch it.
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/kundalini.html

He goes on to say when one is highly aware in the present moment, and free of ones conditioning and all seeking, then experiences come naturally. One should not seek such things as they only sustain the false self or ego.