Rare is the Guru

[peteyzen]

Hi Django,
Yes Buddha did ultimately find his own way to the end, and as you correctly mention, I made that point. I also made the point that having the strength, discipline, determination and to be so developed already when you enter this life, that you are capable of reaching realisation whilst in it, is rare. Because of this, for almost everyone, a teacher is required, because the truth is, most of us...nearly all of us...will not achieve nirvana in this life, but we will improve our future potential by working towards it and living a good life. Our ultimate goal is to return to God or Buddha consciousness (depending on your point of view). Guidance along this path is so important. The ego is so strong it will set you spinning in circles if you take it on alone. It is actually better to surrender your ego to a teacher or a system of teaching such as Buddhism and follow their method. To take on the ego alone, without the necessary skills, usually doesn`t turn out well.

[sky]

Originally Posted by peteyzen

Hi Django,
Yes Buddha did ultimately find his own way to the end, and as you correctly mention, I made that point. I also made the point that having the strength, discipline, determination and to be so developed already when you enter this life, that you are capable of reaching realisation whilst in it, is rare. Because of this, for almost everyone, a teacher is required, because the truth is, most of us...nearly all of us...will not achieve nirvana in this life, but we will improve our future potential by working towards it and living a good life. Our ultimate goal is to return to God or Buddha consciousness (depending on your point of view). Guidance along this path is so important. The ego is so strong it will set you spinning in circles if you take it on alone. It is actually better to surrender your ego to a teacher or a system of teaching such as Buddhism and follow their method. To take on the ego alone, without the necessary skills, usually doesn`t turn out well.

What about others who attain enlightenment without even knowing Dharma teachings, Buddha's who awaken alone ?

I do think that some need Teachers/Gurus but not all, if you feel you need a Teachers help then it's obvious you need one otherwise you wouldn't go down that path.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Do you have a link for that because Theravada is a teacher based system and even that tradition doesn't make up a different story of the Buddha's life..

He had teachers... many... a simple fact.. I know people who are against teachers don't like that idea... or fact

He did have Teachers I agree with you but they failed to help him find what he knew was there inside, he was looking outside as many do when the answer is inside.
Regarding the meaning of ' Buddha ' in Theravada look around yourself, plenty of info: on this if you want to find it, or mybe you don't like that idea

[django]

Originally Posted by peteyzen

Hi Django,
Yes Buddha did ultimately find his own way to the end, and as you correctly mention, I made that point. I also made the point that having the strength, discipline, determination and to be so developed already when you enter this life, that you are capable of reaching realisation whilst in it, is rare. Because of this, for almost everyone, a teacher is required, because the truth is, most of us...nearly all of us...will not achieve nirvana in this life, but we will improve our future potential by working towards it and living a good life. Our ultimate goal is to return to God or Buddha consciousness (depending on your point of view). Guidance along this path is so important. The ego is so strong it will set you spinning in circles if you take it on alone. It is actually better to surrender your ego to a teacher or a system of teaching such as Buddhism and follow their method. To take on the ego alone, without the necessary skills, usually doesn`t turn out well.

An authentic guru can be hard to find.

Here's a question, in the absence of an authentic guru in my location, would it be better to practice Self-enquiry (for example) alone and to the best of my ability or to follow a blind guru into the ditch (because God knows there are plenty of those).

[running]

Originally Posted by django

An authentic guru can be hard to find.

Here's a question, in the absence of an authentic guru in my location, would it be better to practice Self-enquiry (for example) alone and to the best of my ability or to follow a blind guru into the ditch (because God knows there are plenty of those).

self inquiry has worked for me. you don't wind up in a ditch from anybody but oneself. what i mean is you dont have to follow what somebody is saying just because somebody is saying it.

its not in what is said. its in the power of the shakti. when i got into spirituality i met many people that helped in energetic ways. what they thought i took with a grain of salt. ideas are independent to everybody. and then you have ideas to.

until one realizes its not in the ideas but in the shakti. one is doomed anyways. and then they blame a teacher.

the ignorance is in not knowing what one is looking for. most gurus are sorta crazy in their own ways. as everybody is. but they are being looked at with a microscope due to ignorance.

perfect gurus do not exist. even jesus was killed.

[Miss Hepburn]

When in the presence of my Guru I have been transported to
spiritual places I find hard to describe...many lasting months.
Was this indeed my Guru's Grace or power?
Or was this me believing he had this Grace and power?
Others were not so effected...and others more effected...or
was it both...his Grace and my openness, sincerity, desire and readiness?

I find belief and readiness to be O so powerful a catalyst to sudden moments of transcendence ..
If one is told a certain area or vortex has the power to encourage spiritual insight...it will.
Not being disrespectful to gurus, a 'sacred broccoli' grown in Croatia could have the same power
if believed in enough...
Why?
Because the door to the Kingdom of Heaven lies in everything around you and in you
at every moment waiting only for our acknowledgement and to open it.
(words from The Way of Mastery, btw, Lesson 6)

(I always cap Grace...I can't help it.)

[running]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

When in the presence of my Guru I have been transported to
spiritual places I find hard to describe...many lasting months.
Was this indeed my Guru's Grace or power?
Or was this me believing he had this Grace and power?
Others were not so effected...and others more effected...or
was it both...his Grace and my openness, sincerity, desire and readiness?

(I always cap Grace...I can't help it.)

presence is the litmus test. i personally believe it is in the guru and the disciple. perhaps belief can have a lot to do with it.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by running

presence is the litmus test. i personally believe it is in the
guru and the disciple. perhaps belief can have a lot to do with it.

Hi running...I added to my post above, btw...hope the roads are safe for you, my friend.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

He did have Teachers I agree with you but they failed to help him find what he knew was there inside, he was looking outside as many do when the answer is inside.

What do you think spiritual teachers are, what they teach?

They were all telling him to find it inside himself. Each guided him along the way as well.

Regarding the meaning of ' Buddha ' in Theravada look around yourself, plenty of info: on this if you want to find it, or mybe you don't like that idea

So you want me to look up the meaning of Buddha from a tradition that doesn't believe one can achieve BuddhaHood in a lifetime, that is teacher based to help prove that the Buddha didn't need teachers or preached that you don't need a teacher?

I'll think about it

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

An authentic guru can be hard to find.

Here's a question, in the absence of an authentic guru in my location, would it be better to practice Self-enquiry (for example) alone and to the best of my ability or to follow a blind guru into the ditch (because God knows there are plenty of those).

Why would you ever follow a blind guru into a ditch?

Only you can decide if someone is your guru. To find an authentic guru you have to be open to it. If you are not open to it then he could be right in front of you and you would never feel, or know it.

What I would suggest is if there is a system of practices that you like within a tradition to search online for classes and communities. Search for a teacher you like. Then practice and learn.