encouraging accidental suicide

Originally Posted by Trieah

Ok, I have a serious question. Just how often does one encounter the scenario where someone is actually trying to encourage someone else to commit suicide? To be honest, I really don't think it happens anywhere near as much as this thread seems to imply it does. And especially not in the scenarios that have been brought up. Could it be that we're all just speculating too much on such a touchy subject?

In just one thread i seen one person planning to end life early spiritually, another encourage it and a third mention that they were considering ending their life but wasnt ready to talk about it but they were ready to get information on if it was the right avenue. How many times does it need to happen for it to be acceptable to try stop it happening in the future?

Sorry if this is a touchy subject but havent you experienced enough loss Trieah, enough to not want any others to feel what you did in any way shape or form? You have the experience to answer your own question

Well, I haven't seen this particular thread you're talking about. But, I have seen way too many threads over the course of my entire experience with message boards, where too many misunderstanding were running a muck all over the place. I've seen thread similar to what you're suggesting taking a turn for the worse, when someone misinterprets something someone else said. Or when someone who thought they were helping, came off sounding callous, cold, or even worse yet, try to "bully" their way into taking over the situations, all in the name of "I have all the answers for your life, whether you like it or not". I've just seen way too many threads blow up and out of proportion for 15 year, to know all too well what kinds of things can happen in a public forum such as this.

While yes, I do agree that it is a noble deed to help people out when they need it the most, but you also have to remember, that not all people who think they are helping someone, are actually doing any real good. And the reason for that, is every one has their own ideas about what will work for someone else. And just as he mentioned, not everyone who offers their help, is actually going to be helpful to the situation. Let me illustrate.

While I may have mentioned that my stepdad did kill himself, I didn't mention the circumstances behind why he did it. Actually, it was the "good intentions" of his own psychiatrist that was partially to blame. And one could even argue that my mom technically could have prevented the whole thing, but she didn't, due to one small technicality. After turning 65, he was forced to get on Medicare, and therefore forced to have a new psychiatrist. But this new doctor refused to heed the old doctor's warning of never changing his medication, because my stepdad couldn't handle the chemical imbalance, and had already tried to kill himself once before, proving he couldn't handle it. Well, this new doctor decided that my stepdad wasn't making any real progress with his depression. So he told my stepdad that he just didn't want to get better. And eventually, his doctor even wound up changing his medication three times in one week. So, my stepdad tried his very best to adjust to all the different medications his doctor was prescribing for him. And he did try very hard to follow his doctor's advice, by trying new things and giving each one an honest attempt to work. But in the end, he simply could not handle all those different chemicals in his body, or how his doctor was making him feel even worse by telling him he had no real desire to get better, since he wasn't even trying hard enough to get better.

So one day, he met my mother at the door when she came home, and he showed her how bad his hands were shaking, and how sweaty his palms were. She actually needed to go to the restroom pretty bad, but she continued to talk to him through the door, telling him to hell with what his doctor said. They still had a prescription for his old medicine, and as soon as she got done in the bathroom, she said she'd take him out to get his right pills. But when she got out of the bathroom, he was nowhere to be found. Thinking that he was in the car waiting for her, she went to open the garage door. But just before she turned the knob, she heard the pop of a gun.

My point is, that even with the very best of intentions from others, there is still always a chance that someone can unknowingly set off a trigger in a suicidal person. I'm not saying that we should all give up the notion of helping someone cope with their pain. But I am saying that it is a very tricky business when too many people start offering their help, or their version of "help". Ever hear the expression, too many cooks spoil the broth?

I'll give you another example of a true story. Several months ago, on this very message board, someone else made a post about how they had finally come to the deadline they had given them self to either have something happen, or they were going to end it all. It was quite a dramatic thread, with lots of people chiming in to try and convince this person not to do it. It's actually been such a long time since this happened, that I can't quite remember all the details, but there were a few people who seemed rather appalled that someone would actually create such a thread. Oh, they had their own version of "good advice" to give to this person. But it didn't sound anywhere near as caring or sympathetic as most of the others did. Fortunately, that person did not wind up killing himself.

But see, that's the thing, when using this form of communication with others, one can never really be sure they've interpreted the other person's words in the exact same way that person intended their words to convey. And with a true suicidal person, it's extremely important to not set off any of their triggers that would actually cause them to go ahead and do the deed. A person could have all the good intentions of the world, when it comes to trying to talk someone out of suicide, but if that person says the wrong thing at the wrong time, or makes them feel even worse somehow, or can't actually live up to the expectations of always being there for the person who's been counting on them, then that, is when things start getting tricky.

Yes, it is very important to care enough about another person, to offer your help to them when they need it the most. But, it is equally important to offer the right kind of help.

Originally Posted by res

Sorry if this is a touchy subject but havent you experienced enough loss Trieah, enough to not want any others to feel what you did in any way shape or form? You have the experience to answer your own question

By the way, when I mentioned that suicide was a touchy subject, I meant that it's a touchy subject for everyone across the board, regardless of their personal feelings on the matter, and not because it's a touchy subject for me

While yes, I have experienced quite a few losses over the years, from many other reasons besides just suicide. And as a result, I've had to realize that death is just another part of life. While this may sound cold to some, I look at it from more of a practical point of view.

I know I'll see those I've lost again, and in some cases I already have. So I try not to let death prevent me from continuing to live my life to the best of my ability, because I know they don't want me feeling sad over losing them. But no, I personally would never consider talking someone into killing them self. I may keep an open dialog with someone about the subject, as a way of circumventing the situation or as a way to get to know the root causes of their reasons. Or I may even share jokes about it with someone as a way to break the tension. But no, I would never give someone serious advice about killing them self, regardless if I feel death is just another part of life or not.

Originally Posted by Trieah

Yes, it is very important to care enough about another person, to offer your help to them when they need it the most. But, it is equally important to offer the right kind of help.

I agree that the right kind of help is the core issue here.

Maybe just a sticky thread in the death and afterlife discussions that gives details of where people with suicidal tendencies can get professional help outside of this website, closer to their own homes and healthcare system? Also that the site does not tolerate certain behaviour which would be determined by them to be appropriate for the site. Anyway i will send a message and outline the suggestion and leave it in the hands of the powers that be. Gotta try

Im sorry if you thought i was insinuating that you spoke out from being too close to the issue. I actually took the time to think about how you may react to my bringing up your loss and my concern was that i didnt want to upset you. I am so sorry again that you and your family have had to go through losing someone to suicide. Its is so sad that the ones left behind have to suffer so much.

Originally Posted by Trieah

-heavy sigh-

I say the same thing. I try to say things but reading the responses it is obviously the wrong words that comes out of my computer. I once were the Shepherd of the roads, helping people on their journey. So in all of my existence I have helped many souls take the journey from here to the underworld and never have I experienced any judgment about how anyone died from the “other side“. If there have ever been any judgment about the death, it has come from the diseased self.

Occultist: for a moment I saw your beautiful light shine, so thank you for that.

All I ever wrote was that I do not want to judge others because that is not my job. The reason is this: just because a path is right for me does not mean that it is right for someone else. I give that some people are lost and those that are we can try to help and guide, but in the end it is their choice what they do. So if they choose suicide it is better for them to leave with love instead of fear of judgment.

For myself: I have finished all my lessons for this lifetime and whatever path I take from here is as good as any. The only difference in them is the length of them. For now I am taking the long path around the Elephant in the living room.

Here is a little thing to ponder about: You are out eating with a blind man, so you have to read him his dinner choices. You dislike veal so for that reason you choose not to read the dinner choices with veal in them. The question here is; how is that less wrong than if you love veal and therefore only read him the dinner choices with veal in them?

I have my fears, there is no doubt about that and I do not deny that, but all I have written is that I believe that unconditional love is the right path to take. So am I afraid of judgment by God? [sorry but my spirit guide thinks that is a quite funny thing to write]. I have to say no to that, but to know why you probably have to know who I am on my spiritual level.

I say the same thing. I try to say things but reading the responses it is obviously the wrong words that comes out of my computer. I once were the Shepherd of the roads, helping people on their journey. So in all of my existence I have helped many souls take the journey from here to the underworld and never have I experienced any judgment about how anyone died from the “other side“. If there have ever been any judgment about the death, it has come from the diseased self.

Occultist: for a moment I saw your beautiful light shine, so thank you for that.

All I ever wrote was that I do not want to judge others because that is not my job. The reason is this: just because a path is right for me does not mean that it is right for someone else. I give that some people are lost and those that are we can try to help and guide, but in the end it is their choice what they do. So if they choose suicide it is better for them to leave with love instead of fear of judgment.

For myself: I have finished all my lessons for this lifetime and whatever path I take from here is as good as any. The only difference in them is the length of them. For now I am taking the long path around the Elephant in the living room.

Here is a little thing to ponder about: You are out eating with a blind man, so you have to read him his dinner choices. You dislike veal so for that reason you choose not to read the dinner choices with veal in them. The question here is; how is that less wrong than if you love veal and therefore only read him the dinner choices with veal in them?

I have my fears, there is no doubt about that and I do not deny that, but all I have written is that I believe that unconditional love is the right path to take. So am I afraid of judgment by God? [sorry but my spirit guide thinks that is a quite funny thing to write]. I have to say no to that, but to know why you probably have to know who I am on my spiritual level.

I may disagree strongly with your opinion on the suicide issue... but I do like your style.

I once were the Shepherd of the roads, helping people on their journey. So in all of my existence I have helped many souls take the journey from here to the underworld and never have I experienced any judgment about how anyone died from the “other side“. If there have ever been any judgment about the death, it has come from the diseased self.

All I ever wrote was that I do not want to judge others because that is not my job. The reason is this: just because a path is right for me does not mean that it is right for someone else. I give that some people are lost and those that are we can try to help and guide, but in the end it is their choice what they do. So if they choose suicide it is better for them to leave with love instead of fear of judgment.

I have my fears, there is no doubt about that and I do not deny that, but all I have written is that I believe that unconditional love is the right path to take.

I do feel similar to what you've expressed. Once a person is dead, they really do need to be in a better state of mind so they don't trap themselves inside their own personal hell. Too many souls are so terrified of some kind of harsh judgment and punishment, that they will hide from the Light when ever they see it.

I once helped the soul of a young woman who was being held captive inside a place filled with negative vibrations. Someone stronger then her, was keeping her there through fear tactics. She was so terrified of this other spirit, that she kept trying to warn me that he would do the same kinds of things to me if I didn't leave before he found me there. But I knew better.

I told her to look around me, and see who it was that protected me, since I knew that both Jesus and Archangel Michael were with me. I thought she would have been comforted by their presence. But instead, she flung herself into a corner, and was more terrified of Jesus and Archangel Michael, then she was of that other spirit who had been abusing her. And the reason why, is because she was too lost inside her own fear of judgment. She didn't want to be "sent" to Hell for not being the best person she could have been. And yet, it was her fear of being so rejected by unconditional love, that was actually keeping her locked away inside of a hell of her own making.

It took quite a bit of convincing, but she did finally go into the Light with Jesus and Archangel Michael. And, I even found a way to convince the guy who was keeping her there, that he should cross over as well, regardless of what he'd been doing.

So yes, I do get where you're coming from. It's not our place to judge the soul who has passed over into the spirit world. Because in death, the soul really needs to understand the concept of unconditional love, so they do not trap themselves inside their own personal hell. But I do also think that they need the right kind of help while they're still alive.

Everyone has their own perspective concerning death, suicide, and the ways in which the two are achieved.

Everyone has their own opinion concerning what happens to Souls that actually commit suicide.

I (personally) have never seen anyone at SpiritualForums condone--or encourage--suicide.

My younger sister was a diabetic--who could not over-come the pain of never receiving enough love from our Mother. She was fragile and one day she ended that pain by consuming a one pound bag of M&Ms.

My husband had terminal liver cancer and was given enough morphine to ease his pain and (as the dosage was gradually increased) eventually the drug caused respiratory failure and he died in my arms.

We should be very careful--when we state opinions.

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...

Originally Posted by LadyTerra

My younger sister was a diabetic--who could not over-come the pain of never receiving enough love from our Mother. She was fragile and one day she ended that pain by consuming a one pound bag of M&Ms.

My husband had terminal liver cancer and was given enough morphine to ease his pain and (as the dosage was gradually increased) eventually the drug caused respiratory failure and he died in my arms.

We should be very careful--when we state opinions.

You certainly have seen too much loss LadyTerra and i am so sorry for your loss. Such a waste of life. May i ask how old your sister was when she passed?

Not aiming this at any one person, They say that the human brain is not fully devoloped until the age of 23 and up until this time the part that considers rational consequence is not fully functioning. This worries me that kids and young adults may be particulary succeptable to others impressions of the afterlife.

When our culture has people that 100% believe that what they seen in their mind in regard to the afterlife is 'certain undeniable truth' and offer it up as advice, it becomes the basis for some young peoples actions.

These types of forums are a smorgasboard for curious minds looking for answers to questions that they would not ask in their outside reality. Our responsibility is enormous to give correct certain undeniable truthfull ideas and concepts to these young minds. There are impressionable children as young as 14 that i have seen on this forum...14!........ thats 10 years premature of having the mental capacity to make rational decisions based on what you and you and you and myself have said here.

Who here is undeniably qualified to share the correct and certain truth about death the afterlife?
im not talking about your interpretation based on your experience or what you read in a book im talking about factual truth with enough certainty to put the lives of young children in your hands? hands up? I for one am not.

Is there is a duty of care for our youth and those that are youthfully minded by the community that should surpasses peoples rights to share their individual belief systems as truth?

[Dragonfly1]

Originally Posted by LadyTerra

Everyone has their own perspective concerning death, suicide, and the ways in which the two are achieved.

Everyone has their own opinion concerning what happens to Souls that actually commit suicide.

I (personally) have never seen anyone at SpiritualForums condone--or encourage--suicide.

My younger sister was a diabetic--who could not over-come the pain of never receiving enough love from our Mother. She was fragile and one day she ended that pain by consuming a one pound bag of M&Ms.

My husband had terminal liver cancer and was given enough morphine to ease his pain and (as the dosage was gradually increased) eventually the drug caused respiratory failure and he died in my arms.

We should be very careful--when we state opinions.

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...

Your situation and that of your loved ones is quite sad, I too have had very ill and terminally ill family members.
This thread is about members on this forum, giving advice to vulnerable people speaking of suicide....We on the forum don't truly know anyone on here,(unless of course we are friends in the flesh or family to them)...so we can be told anything by anyone without a way of actually knowing anything about them....to give such advice as to condone suicide to anyone on a forum is grossly irresponsible......telling someone you are contemplating such an act is a cry for help, not for encouragement to do it....... It is anyones choice of course to go through with the act (as it well maybe their path), but it is not our right to encourage this act in anyway.....that is my firm belief on this matter.....
I offer you my condolences for the sad losses in your life.....Peace xx