The REAL dark side of The Law of Attraction

[CrystalSong]

Manifesting has become how I live, not particularly by choice, but by forced circumstance. This has ensued that I get it right, because whatever is happening in my head(thoughts) will in short order find a vibrational match and an experience will unfold.
The whole concept of "Sculpting your reality" is a far more real experience to me than anything happening in the news.

So while I agree with AllenD's first sentence of "You attract what you Are right now. I disagree with "You attract the opposite of what you want!!"

The only way the second sentence can be true is if you have a second hidden set of thoughts or belief line script running that your most conscious mind is refusing to take notice of.

If we say "Alright Universe, I really need a (insert blank)"
But then have a hidden belief that we somehow don't deserve it, or that we never get what we really want, or everything we get turns to poo-poo then that's on the same order to the Universe and we'll get some very mixed results. Or if that little voice is the loudest holding the most emotion and clarity we will get the opposite of what we wanted, because that was the strongest vibration/frequency energizing our manifestation request.

Most people sending our confusing request manage to just make it Null and Void, their inner voice and their outer request are in perfect opposites and therefore cancel each other out - "Request Not arrived - Return to sender". lol

"Know Thyself" and being able to re-sculpt belief systems and control one's thoughts are critical for successful manifestation.

I'm not in a position in life to get to play with manifesting anymore, it is how I live now and if I mess it up I don't have a roof over my head, food to eat, gas to put in my manifested minivan, nor $ to insure it, or dental care, or anything...

Fortunately I'm doing pretty good with it and manifesting all my needs and even some luxuries and lots of international travel.

There is a flow of goodness through my life and I can change that at anytime by disbelieving it, not thinking I'm worthy, believing I have to get a job to make ends meet, believing that this can't continue or any other negative thoughts which will cancel out my current beliefs that The Universe will provide for me and that bounty and ease are a natural state if we choose it".

To me there is no Dark Side of LOA or manifestation, there is only lack of clarity and self sabotaging thoughts providing learning opportunities in a dramatic unmissable way.

Originally Posted by VinceField

This erroneously assumes that who you are is always the opposite of what you want.

If this were the case, there would be no change. We would always just attract more of the same, more of the opposite of what we want.

What happens when a person decides to change who they are, how they think, what they believe? What they are right now changes, and therefore, the nature of what they attract changes.

Hi VinceField,

First let's make it clearer if you WANT something to have that means that you don't have it right now, that's the belief you hold in your subconscious mind. That's your vibration regarding the specific thing you want to attract, a lack and not a have.

To be in WANT means that most of the time you are looking for the thing to manifest, expecting it to come, you may did a visualization and then all day you are waiting for it to come, this waiting is equal to hours of visualizing that you do not have the thing!
If you want to change you first choose what you want and then try to regularly and consistently live in the desired reality in whatever level possible.

You can start only in visualization and than also match your vibrations in WORKING to the goal physically, not waiting, not looking for it, working yourself and living the desired identity.

Good info also on DeepAwareness website when I reach 25 post I'll be able to share the link….until then you can add dotcom to the website name…

Try all day to say "I am so happy" I promise you that you will be very sad and suffer, because if you want to match the reality of you are happy then in that reality that you already have happiness, you would not need happiness because you have it so you will not say the mantra of "I am so happy" in the desired reality, therefore saying the mantra is a vibration mismatch…or as I say an identity mismatch.


-Allen

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Manifesting has become how I live, not particularly by choice, but by forced circumstance. This has ensued that I get it right, because whatever is happening in my head(thoughts) will in short order find a vibrational match and an experience will unfold.
The whole concept of "Sculpting your reality" is a far more real experience to me than anything happening in the news.

So while I agree with AllenD's first sentence of "You attract what you Are right now. I disagree with "You attract the opposite of what you want!!"

The only way the second sentence can be true is if you have a second hidden set of thoughts or belief line script running that your most conscious mind is refusing to take notice of.

If we say "Alright Universe, I really need a (insert blank)"
But then have a hidden belief that we somehow don't deserve it, or that we never get what we really want, or everything we get turns to poo-poo then that's on the same order to the Universe and we'll get some very mixed results. Or if that little voice is the loudest holding the most emotion and clarity we will get the opposite of what we wanted, because that was the strongest vibration/frequency energizing our manifestation request.

Most people sending our confusing request manage to just make it Null and Void, their inner voice and their outer request are in perfect opposites and therefore cancel each other out - "Request Not arrived - Return to sender". lol

"Know Thyself" and being able to re-sculpt belief systems and control one's thoughts are critical for successful manifestation.

I'm not in a position in life to get to play with manifesting anymore, it is how I live now and if I mess it up I don't have a roof over my head, food to eat, gas to put in my manifested minivan, nor $ to insure it, or dental care, or anything...

Fortunately I'm doing pretty good with it and manifesting all my needs and even some luxuries and lots of international travel.

There is a flow of goodness through my life and I can change that at anytime by disbelieving it, not thinking I'm worthy, believing I have to get a job to make ends meet, believing that this can't continue or any other negative thoughts which will cancel out my current beliefs that The Universe will provide for me and that bounty and ease are a natural state if we choose it".

To me there is no Dark Side of LOA or manifestation, there is only lack of clarity and self sabotaging thoughts providing learning opportunities in a dramatic unmissable way.

HI CrystalSong

Yes I agree it's your subconscious beliefs about yourself and your reality that create your reality.

What I meant is if you just want something without entering a new identity and a new set of beliefs then you are in an identity and belief of LACK of the thing you want to attract.

[John32241]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Most people sending our confusing request manage to just make it Null and Void, their inner voice and their outer request are in perfect opposites and therefore cancel each other out - "Request Not arrived - Return to sender". lol

I agree

"Know Thyself" and being able to re-sculpt belief systems and control one's thoughts are critical for successful manifestation.

We either do not teach this principal very well or most of us do not want to change.

I'm not in a position in life to get to play with manifesting anymore, it is how I live now and if I mess it up I don't have a roof over my head, food to eat, gas to put in my manifested minivan, nor $ to insure it, or dental care, or anything...

Fortunately I'm doing pretty good with it and manifesting all my needs and even some luxuries and lots of international travel.

There is a flow of goodness through my life and I can change that at anytime by disbelieving it, not thinking I'm worthy, believing I have to get a job to make ends meet, believing that this can't continue or any other negative thoughts which will cancel out my current beliefs that The Universe will provide for me and that bounty and ease are a natural state if we choose it".

To me there is no Dark Side of LOA or manifestation, there is only lack of clarity and self sabotaging thoughts providing learning opportunities in a dramatic unmissable way.

Yes Indeed.

John

[VinceField]

Originally Posted by AllenD

Hi VinceField,

First let's make it clearer if you WANT something to have that means that you don't have it right now, that's the belief you hold in your subconscious mind. That's your vibration regarding the specific thing you want to attract, a lack and not a have.

To be in WANT means that most of the time you are looking for the thing to manifest, expecting it to come, you may did a visualization and then all day you are waiting for it to come, this waiting is equal to hours of visualizing that you do not have the thing!
If you want to change you first choose what you want and then try to regularly and consistently live in the desired reality in whatever level possible.

You can start only in visualization and than also match your vibrations in WORKING to the goal physically, not waiting, not looking for it, working yourself and living the desired identity.

Good info also on DeepAwareness website when I reach 25 post I'll be able to share the link….until then you can add dotcom to the website name…

Try all day to say "I am so happy" I promise you that you will be very sad and suffer, because if you want to match the reality of you are happy then in that reality that you already have happiness, you would not need happiness because you have it so you will not say the mantra of "I am so happy" in the desired reality, therefore saying the mantra is a vibration mismatch…or as I say an identity mismatch.


-Allen

We live in a world of cause and effect. Through experience we learn that certain causes give rise to corresponding effects. To achieve happiness from a state of sadness, one must abandon the causes that give rise to sadness and develop the causes that give rise to happiness. There is nothing mystical about it.

One point of interest from your original post is it is not always a matter of "opposite." For example, I may be somewhat happy now, but I want more happiness. Perhaps I am very happy now, but I want even more happiness! Perhaps I don't experience sadness, but I don't experience happiness either, I experience complete apathy and boredom. These are not dealing in opposites or extremes, but simply changes from one state to another.

[CrystalSong]

Originally Posted by AllenD

Hi VinceField,

First let's make it clearer if you WANT something to have that means that you don't have it right now, that's the belief you hold in your subconscious mind. That's your vibration regarding the specific thing you want to attract, a lack and not a have.

To be in WANT means that most of the time you are looking for the thing to manifest, expecting it to come, you may did a visualization and then all day you are waiting for it to come, this waiting is equal to hours of visualizing that you do not have the thing!
If you want to change you first choose what you want and then try to regularly and consistently live in the desired reality in whatever level possible.

You can start only in visualization and than also match your vibrations in WORKING to the goal physically, not waiting, not looking for it, working yourself and living the desired identity.


Try all day to say "I am so happy" I promise you that you will be very sad and suffer, because if you want to match the reality of you are happy then in that reality that you already have happiness, you would not need happiness because you have it so you will not say the mantra of "I am so happy" in the desired reality, therefore saying the mantra is a vibration mismatch…or as I say an identity mismatch.


-Allen

I started to agree with this, because it's true in a lot of ways.
But when I really think about manifesting, the nuts and bolts of how it's done, this actually becomes WAY OVER THINKING. The kind of stuff which wraps our brains up into thinking and being a certain way and actually prevents manifesting because there's so much 'trying' involved.
I don't even know if it's possible to manifest an emotional state because the whole premise is based on the mind doing something and manifesting comes from the mind NOT doing.

When I first started manifesting, quiet accidentally, I became fascinated by it and wished to find the mechanics behind it so it could be a more predictable thing and not so random.

A set of dice helped me to study in a very instant way what was occurring. And it's very much about Stating the Desire and then totally shutting down the brain to absolute Null/Void space until those dice have stopped rolling.
And it takes a bit to get to that space, it may take a week of rolling dice for 1/2 hour a day and dealing with Wounded Ego every time it doesn't get what it asked for, before we train it to absolutely get out of the way. When we do roll the dice we asked for there's a whole '`nother learning curve involved in staying in the state we need to be in to manifest, cause Ego gets all excited about having achieve results and when that happens it's 'back to the drawing board'.

Once we understand that space, let's call it the Production of Theta Waves, then we can hold that state and manifest roll after roll. But there's this Not Noticing that has to stay present, we can't at anytime have a secret smile, or let brain recognize what's happening. It's almost a state of self induced trance or hypnosis.
I've proved this to myself, by on multiple days rolling 30-40 dice in a row and got what was asked for each time. Same with card hands and any other spread of things random enough to work.
It's important to not try and manifest the same thing every time because the pool of probability gets used up proportionately to how many possibilities were in it.

Once the mental space and feeling that accompanies it in the body is understood and recognized, it can be reproduced in other setting and manifesting steps up to manifesting the perfect parking place, lunch, a new outfit, winter boots and so on.

After learning how to do it in a predictable manner based on my own explorations I decided to look around out there and see what others were saying about how to do it.
And wow did I run into a lot of stuff, most of it way too intellectually and heady based to actually be useful - just too much head thinking and 'do this and then this'. It seriously gets over thought far too often, especially for something which only works when the brain is shut off.

However to understand the variables and how it works Tom Campbell may explain it the best of the many I've listened to, because he strips the superstition out of it and explains the physics of it, which match to my understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wISsxE-EZU

Long lecture, 3 part I believe, but the section on manifesting is in there somewhere.

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

I started to agree with this, because it's true in a lot of ways.
But when I really think about manifesting, the nuts and bolts of how it's done, this actually becomes WAY OVER THINKING. The kind of stuff which wraps our brains up into thinking and being a certain way and actually prevents manifesting because there's so much 'trying' involved.
I don't even know if it's possible to manifest an emotional state because the whole premise is based on the mind doing something and manifesting comes from the mind NOT doing.

When I first started manifesting, quiet accidentally, I became fascinated by it and wished to find the mechanics behind it so it could be a more predictable thing and not so random.

A set of dice helped me to study in a very instant way what was occurring. And it's very much about Stating the Desire and then totally shutting down the brain to absolute Null/Void space until those dice have stopped rolling.
And it takes a bit to get to that space, it may take a week of rolling dice for 1/2 hour a day and dealing with Wounded Ego every time it doesn't get what it asked for, before we train it to absolutely get out of the way. When we do roll the dice we asked for there's a whole '`nother learning curve involved in staying in the state we need to be in to manifest, cause Ego gets all excited about having achieve results and when that happens it's 'back to the drawing board'.

Once we understand that space, let's call it the Production of Theta Waves, then we can hold that state and manifest roll after roll. But there's this Not Noticing that has to stay present, we can't at anytime have a secret smile, or let brain recognize what's happening. It's almost a state of self induced trance or hypnosis.
I've proved this to myself, by on multiple days rolling 30-40 dice in a row and got what was asked for each time. Same with card hands and any other spread of things random enough to work.
It's important to not try and manifest the same thing every time because the pool of probability gets used up proportionately to how many possibilities were in it.

Once the mental space and feeling that accompanies it in the body is understood and recognized, it can be reproduced in other setting and manifesting steps up to manifesting the perfect parking place, lunch, a new outfit, winter boots and so on.

After learning how to do it in a predictable manner based on my own explorations I decided to look around out there and see what others were saying about how to do it.
And wow did I run into a lot of stuff, most of it way too intellectually and heady based to actually be useful - just too much head thinking and 'do this and then this'. It seriously gets over thought far too often, especially for something which only works when the brain is shut off.

However to understand the variables and how it works Tom Campbell may explain it the best of the many I've listened to, because he strips the superstition out of it and explains the physics of it, which match to my understanding.



Long lecture, 3 part I believe, but the section on manifesting is in there somewhere.

HI CrystalSong

I agree 100% with what you just wrote, a major key for manifesting is FORGETING about it, TRYING to bring it means an identity of lack we want to release an intention and forget the identity of lack so the identity of having will automatically pop in and replace the old one…

You can consciously work on a project but forget about the results just WORK, BE, in the path in the identity and the destination then will be open to you automatically. like training everyday on the dice and forget about results…

As for mind power and intention manifestation…I have trained years ago in Remote Viewing the same principle you describe with the dice was playing a major role in successfully remote viewing, in order to remote view something I will ask for it and then blank out my mind, pretend I am rock and then when I am falling into unawareness suddenly information will appear into my mind.

This helped me learn a lot on the mechanic of reality manifestation.


Thank you for the video link I will check it out!!

VinceField:
" We live in a world of cause and effect. Through experience we learn that certain causes give rise to corresponding effects. To achieve happiness from a state of sadness, one must abandon the causes that give rise to sadness and develop the causes that give rise to happiness. There is nothing mystical about it."

Thanks this is giving me some interesting thoughts to ponder upon…..anyway……

CrystalSong:
"I don't even know if it's possible to manifest an emotional state because the whole premise is based on the mind doing something and manifesting comes from the mind NOT doing."

Yes in my own personal experience I have manifested emotional states that went on for hours…just pure inward feelings, in the beginning WANTING happiness results in a deep and heavy sadness with tears with no reasons for hours….when I figured this out I was able to generate hours of bliss. But I prefer to create productive realities now and not just emotional high…..

Nice thread. I agree that the LOA is likely "misused" or misinterpreted at times, but I think it is hard to evualuate who is misusing it and for what. For example, if someone uses it for material gain, there is no way to determine that this is the "wrong" way for them to utilize it. In some instances, material gain may be exactly what is best for that person and their spiritual journey, whether they are consciously aware of it or not.

This is just one example. I guess I'm basically saying that the only person who knows exactly what you need is yourself. Perhaps in gaining material wealth, in one's current disposition and incarnation, perhaps this is the best way currently to get to where you need to go on a spiritual level. Perhaps without material gain, a person may be more likely to go down the wrong path or make grave mistakes, for example, which will hinder them spiritually, etc.

Of course, this is not always the case, and I think we can all agree that many people refuse to acknowledge the wealth they already have, and the
opportunities they may refuse to take. (Wealth meaning material or otherwise.)

Ultimately we will all strive to for freedom from the ego, but obviously not all of us will get to that point in this lifetime. Therefore, it is hard to say that everyone should use the LOA in that manner, because not all of us are ready to let go of the ego and live for others on that level. It would be like asking a toddler to get a full time job, when the best thing for the toddler is actually to simply play and enjoy themselves because this is what will put them in the best position to grow into the best person they can be.

[VinceField]

Originally Posted by dreamextremes

Nice thread. I agree that the LOA is likely "misused" or misinterpreted at times, but I think it is hard to evualuate who is misusing it and for what. For example, if someone uses it for material gain, there is no way to determine that this is the "wrong" way for them to utilize it. In some instances, material gain may be exactly what is best for that person and their spiritual journey, whether they are consciously aware of it or not.

Right. I try to avoid using the word "wrong" in cases like this, as it seems to imply a moral judgement. Rather, I prefer the term "skillful." The skillful use of one's ability to create and shape their life is, by Buddhist definition, any way which brings about more wholesome and pure states of mind and lessens the defilements of the mind (attachment, aversion, delusion, etc).

This is just one example. I guess I'm basically saying that the only person who knows exactly what you need is yourself. Perhaps in gaining material wealth, in one's current disposition and incarnation, perhaps this is the best way currently to get to where you need to go on a spiritual level. Perhaps without material gain, a person may be more likely to go down the wrong path or make grave mistakes, for example, which will hinder them spiritually, etc.

It is possible that a person may learn a lesson that their soul requires by acquiring material wealth and then perhaps using that wealth in good ways, such as to selflessly help others, or create the optimal conditions and environment for spiritual practice. Or perhaps the lesson comes from their unskillful use of the wealth and the harm it causes. Or perhaps the only lesson our souls require is whatever lesson leads to the purification of the mind, in which case doing things that lead in the opposite direction of this are likely unnecessary hinderances to spiritual development.

There are those who know what they need, and those who think they know what they need but are wrong. Many people operate from a place of ego, attachment, aversion, delusion, and other unwholesome states of mind, and coming from unskillful states of mind like these, a person is likely to have a distorted perspective regarding what is the best for them. They are likely to be swayed by the ego's desires for sensual pleasure rather than spiritual growth. Most people I know fall into this category to some extent.