When the Ego hinders the spirit

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Thats a pretty cool interpretation

My understanding is that if you accept that your spiritual energy/ soul are part of infinity & that your physical being is also part of it too then the Ego would be gone.

You may well be known as John Smith on earth, but your not only John Smith .. the whole package is part of everything that exists.

If your not too bothered about material things etc then it goes a long way.

Ultimately you are always complete - you just need to understand how that is so in a body that craves everything under the sun .
.




.
Ps. when someone is smug about coming to this understanding ... they still don't get it....

It's not an actual achievement when the truth has always been written on your inside labels .
.

Hi Raziel,

Thank you for the kind words.

So sharing thoughts that what you share brings to me

Yes, for me the energy/Spirit that gives life appears eternal, but I am experiencing being this human being. With being human comes the thoughts, evaluations, perspectives, and all the rest.

Can relate not separate, just a part of it all.

Living in this world comes with the journey taken, IMO. So, it seems one does what one is able and willing to deal with it. How one is able or willing seems to involve how one either thinks it to be or observes it to be then goes from there.

Now what does all this have to do with what is termed "ego". Ego as far as I can gather is the part of self that plays into this. Not separate, just an aspect or focal point to work through and process what is perceived.

This is not to dismiss what you share. I actually in its totality can feel it is all interconnected and eternal in its own way. ( as best I can word it at present) The part I find interesting and helped me is exploring how thoughts play into this and what can be and is created by them, thus affecting ones view point of the self.

Yes it is with in us all and each add thier own color to the rainbow that shines.
Which in my book makes life that much more interesting. Even the shadows play with in the images we see.

What is made of it to the individual or not seems to be ego at play.

To embrace oneself opens the way to embrace another.

[Moonglow]

Oops double post

[markings]

Originally Posted by HealerW

You are in Truth the background of awareness, or the man behind the curtain, if you will.

In Truth, there is no you, no curtain and no man.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Namaste Greenslade,

Thank you for clarifying.

Can relate to it being cause and effect. Most of my wondering and wanderings is finding understandings of these. Can ask; Why did that happen? Who am I? All the othe other whys, how's, what, ect. If noticing the effects, it comes to me, understanding the cause comes in handy. Both play on each.

The conscious mind seems to get categorized as well. Dividing in it into sections, which for me may cause a division with in the self if taken not so much as focal points, but separate. Suppose at times maybe necessary to look at aspects of the self in order to get at the root cause(s), but isn't it al of the consciousness?

The question comes because if looking at a Soul perspective, then it seems all would be inclusive with in and of the journey.

Yes, we are individuals as well with ones own take and experiences to add to the mix. Which I am tending at present to relate "ego" as being that aspect (individual) that is explored.

For it gets said, depends on ones point of view, each has his/her way of looking at it, and each expresses thier opinion, perspective, knowing, and insight. This indicates to me that "ego" is alive and well with in us.

So, if desired to have a better result, then would think, understanding the cause can bring clarity to the thoughts. Which I feel some of the practices, idealogies, theories, and such attempt to bring to the forefront.

The trick is to not get too caught up in it, but take in what is needed at present.
Some things are not meant for me. Perhaps this is a clue pointing to what the Souls' journey is about. Take in what is for me and what is not let go and leave it for others.

So, back to the question; Does ego hinder spiritual growth? Seems not. If felt or observed within that in its own ways what occurs (cause and effect) seems to create the journey. How it is perceived seems to create how one travels upon the path.

Then isn't all that one experiences also experienced by Soul? Isn't this what Spirtuality pointing to, growth and awareness?

If the Soul travels through many lifetimes, then ego seems a temporary construct within oneself anyways. There may lie the difference between the journey as an individual and the journey as a Soul.

One is only for the time being (individual self), while the other is for the long run (or eternal, if preferred. Soul).

We are experiencing both, IMO. The ego aspect helps in being human and sorting things out. Also helps in connecting with the Soul (or the deeper aspects) and understanding what this may bring as well.

Namaste Moonglow

You're very welcome.

Right, now I see where you're going with this.

What people often don't do is look at individual pieces of the clockwork and how they operate together, they look at the parts they like and ignore the rest. Like Spirituality does, which is why all this whole discussion of ego of so sideways - because we're looking at two very different definitions of ego here. Everybody wants to be the epitome of Spirituality, nobody wants to remember the human parts that are the reasons and foundations of their Spirituality.

So, to clarify; Spirituality good, anything else ignore. So, of parts of that conscious mind don't have anything to do with Spirituality, ignore them.

Yes, it is all of the conscious but the secrets of conscious lie in the questions and not the answers. "What am I conscious of?" To Spirituality the only consciousness that means anything is consciousness of Spirituality - whatever that means and any other consciousness doesn't exist. To the Soul any consciousness is consciousness just the same and neither good nor bad.

If you didn't have an ego you wouldn't have a personality and you'd find it difficult to relate to anyone, or rather they're find it difficult to relate to you. Nobody particularly wants a friend who doesn't have a personality, and being alone would mean your Spirituality takes a serious hit. You'd be discussing the Spirituality of nobody Loves me.

The confusing thing is that there are two definitions of ego and that's what we're dealing with here - that's where the confusion lies. There's the psychological ego which is essentially "A sense of I am" as Jung put it, and there's the Spiritual ego which is the root of all evil. Very Victorian but let's not mention that bit. It's the Spiritual ego that's discussed in here and not the psychological one, and the Spiritual ego is an ideology. Ideologically speaking we should be the epitome of all that is good and kind and Spiritual. Ego death doesn't 'kill' the ego, it's merely a lack of judgement but we're hardwired for judgement anyway so it never really goes away. Ironically being the epitome of Spirituality is judgement.

You can't 'kill' the psychological ego because it's a sense of "I am" - I am Spiritual, I have these beliefs and I don't like you challenging them. If we didn't have en ego we wouldn't be able to function in the real world, we'd be gone completely gaga.

One trick I suppose is not to get caught up in it, another trick is to forget the whole idea and get on with your Life in any way you see fit. If that means you have an ego and a personality, so much the better because it adds another 'layer' to consciousness. If it means you express yourself by playing in the puddles with the kids, being free from the self-imposed should-be raises your vibrations.

Ego IS Spiritual growth because without ego we'd be medicated up to the eyeballs in a psyche ward. For all that Spirituality goes on about consciousness and awareness, it's not conscious nor aware of what it's talking about sometimes.

As we have aspects of ourselves - the Spiritual, ego, mind, body, Soul..... that combines into one 'unit'. Each single past Life is another 'unit' and each is an aspect of your Higher Self or whatever else you call whatever is 'up there'. The curious thing that there is no time and both Spirituality and science agree, only science has the better visualisations of how it works. If that's the case, what does that say about 'past' Lives if there is no past? Because while you're asking about what else you are, there's still even more to come.

Originally Posted by Raziel

My understanding is that if you accept that your spiritual energy/ soul are part of infinity & that your physical being is also part of it too then the Ego would be gone.

Which ego are we taking about? Because the Spiritual ego and the psychological egos seem to be two very different beasts. The psychological ego is best defined by Jung and quite frankly we couldn't function on this plane of existence without it. The Spiritual ego isn't defined - or at least I've never seen one - but it's portrayed as the very Victorian root of all evil, but it boils down to judgement really. If ego is a 'bad thing' that's judgement; the judgement is never gone, it just gets ignored.

When you accept your Spiritual energy your ego (real ego) isn't gone, it's transformed into a part of your being and you understand the interaction between those two aspects of yourself to create something that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Originally Posted by Raziel

You may well be known as John Smith on earth, but your not only John Smith .. the whole package is part of everything that exists.

Exactly, the whole package and not just the Spiritual parts.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Which ego are we taking about? Because the Spiritual ego and the psychological egos seem to be two very different beasts. The psychological ego is best defined by Jung and quite frankly we couldn't function on this plane of existence without it. The Spiritual ego isn't defined - or at least I've never seen one - but it's portrayed as the very Victorian root of all evil, but it boils down to judgement really. If ego is a 'bad thing' that's judgement; the judgement is never gone, it just gets ignored.

When you accept your Spiritual energy your ego (real ego) isn't gone, it's transformed into a part of your being and you understand the interaction between those two aspects of yourself to create something that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Exactly, the whole package and not just the Spiritual parts.

To me both variations of Ego are the same.

Psychological Ego is how the world is defined, understood etc Spiritual Ego is another layer where we add into the mix the ethereal realm & the spirit on top.

It depends on the reality of "the unconscious".

Where is it - why can we suddenly access information that we were not aware of previously?

Is it genetic memory, observations noted by some internal filing system accessed under the right circumstances or is it us tuning into the universe for a split second to access the the focused knowledge?

I have read that a sub school of Advaita Vedanta proposes that Mind or Spirit is created long before birth.

Any way you slice it - we are because we are.

Every peel of the onion reveals more layers.

Becoming comfortable with the fact that science will theorise & dissect yet may never fully crack the many abstract concepts out there is for me that "letting go" process. Psychological ego is akin to calling complicated computer software "D.n.a" : it's nearly there but there is a lot more on top ..
- the software exists because of Bob the programmer - but he exists in his form largely due to D.n.a - which exists because of ...


It's that paradox of understanding that you already understand everything that you don't understand.

Psychological Ego may well be plagiarising the workings of something higher by dumbing it down to our level or psychology may create concepts as to why we invent the spiritual in order to feel as if we could possibly understand the infinite universe.

Both are nothing to do with us yet they are.



As previously mentioned it's the Ouroboros - snake eating it's own tail.


Therefore not having Ego is living outside of it all - even if you exist as a human on earth - accepting that the cosmic umbilical cord is forever attached.

The realisation that you are not your genetics, your experiences, your mental state, your title - you are all and more.

.

On a side note: anyone pointing out "something moving" them or "not moving" them is over egging the pudding. If you are going to be moved or motivated you will be, if your not moved you will cast it aside - not create a bunch of flashing signs to tell everyone else that your "not moved" to act.

"Look mama I'm not reacting" - yes dear well done, now try again without the noise & bravado.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Consciousness is ever evolving, for those aspiring for it to be so, and with that our understanding of the Purpose of Ego and our relationship with it changes, or so it seems to me in this Now.

Currently my understanding is that the body is the vehicle to have experiences in the 3D dimension and the mind (ego) is the operating system to keep the body safe and explore this Garden Earth and the myriad of possibility's possible here. It interprets danger and releases chemicals like adrenalin, recognizes the need for sleep, can handle 3D related technicalities like car driving, math, taxes and social and cultural norms and develop a persona among other things. It creates, invents, makes relationships and uses it's body to discover.
There are many things it can not do though concerning Higher Planes and Beings from Higher Planes and Higher States of Consciousness. It is limited to being the Master of the Third dimension.

Ideally we are composite beings and each aspect of our total being should have a vote at the table:
1/3 Body (which has it's own wisdom and way to communicate)
1/3 Mind (Ego/personality) (which translates, interprets and acts/reacts and organizes life in the 3D dimension)
1/3 Spirit (eternal self which has had many body/minds in the expanse of time)

To me Ego is not a bad thing or a thing to slay or get rid of. Should I (Persona CrystalSong) do that I can't drive safely, do taxes, compute Math or even connect to other people from a human perspective, instead I am Blissed out, often time slipping, generally ungrounded, so Open I slip in and out of others bodies whenever my attention goes to them, I become ONE with everything with no separation and completely untethered from the body/mind I was born this lifetime into. This is not a good way to live all the time and one becomes dependent on others for basic care and needs, additionally it is invasive (from a human perspective) and dangerous (driving etc)
We are, I believe, here to have a human experience, otherwise we would have been born a sponge on Alpha Centuri or some other body vehicle somewhere else, or stayed in Spirit form and not come into a body. :)

So there is a balance and integration which is desirable - the ability to have a human experience with all its joys and pains and also be able to be in simultaneous recognition and experience of being an eternal Spirit based in Unconditional Love for all and anchor that Love back into the human experience and share it to others who have forgotten the Transmigration of the Soul. (I don't mean preaching, but instead living the Love one IS)

There comes a point on the Journey where one discovers the Fullness that they are and becomes unhinged from the human consciousness state, flying high in Bliss and Love and Euphoric states of radical connection to ALL That IS.
Eventually one discovers they still have a body to slep around, they haven't turned into a beam of Light or Ascended into Higher Realms. This is when it is time to begin to anchor all that higher knowledge and access back into the human body - to become that composite Being giving Body and Spirit the vote that Ego/Mind alone could have never done before awakening when it believed it was the totality of the self.

To me the Ego is not a bad thing at all, though some people don't use it well and have become lost in it's endless needs, demands and wants for attention and material goods. However a well controlled Ego is a vast and wonderful tool for fully experiencing the 3rd dimension and the rich fullness of this particular Garden third rock form the sun. :)

Agreed full stop
How did l miss this thread? Very interesting discussion!

Peace & blessings
7L

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Namaste Moonglow

You're very welcome.

Right, now I see where you're going with this.

What people often don't do is look at individual pieces of the clockwork and how they operate together, they look at the parts they like and ignore the rest. Like Spirituality does, which is why all this whole discussion of ego of so sideways - because we're looking at two very different definitions of ego here. Everybody wants to be the epitome of Spirituality, nobody wants to remember the human parts that are the reasons and foundations of their Spirituality.

So, to clarify; Spirituality good, anything else ignore. So, of parts of that conscious mind don't have anything to do with Spirituality, ignore them.

Yes, it is all of the conscious but the secrets of conscious lie in the questions and not the answers. "What am I conscious of?" To Spirituality the only consciousness that means anything is consciousness of Spirituality - whatever that means and any other consciousness doesn't exist. To the Soul any consciousness is consciousness just the same and neither good nor bad.

If you didn't have an ego you wouldn't have a personality and you'd find it difficult to relate to anyone, or rather they're find it difficult to relate to you. Nobody particularly wants a friend who doesn't have a personality, and being alone would mean your Spirituality takes a serious hit. You'd be discussing the Spirituality of nobody Loves me.

The confusing thing is that there are two definitions of ego and that's what we're dealing with here - that's where the confusion lies. There's the psychological ego which is essentially "A sense of I am" as Jung put it, and there's the Spiritual ego which is the root of all evil. Very Victorian but let's not mention that bit. It's the Spiritual ego that's discussed in here and not the psychological one, and the Spiritual ego is an ideology. Ideologically speaking we should be the epitome of all that is good and kind and Spiritual. Ego death doesn't 'kill' the ego, it's merely a lack of judgement but we're hardwired for judgement anyway so it never really goes away. Ironically being the epitome of Spirituality is judgement.

You can't 'kill' the psychological ego because it's a sense of "I am" - I am Spiritual, I have these beliefs and I don't like you challenging them. If we didn't have en ego we wouldn't be able to function in the real world, we'd be gone completely gaga.

One trick I suppose is not to get caught up in it, another trick is to forget the whole idea and get on with your Life in any way you see fit. If that means you have an ego and a personality, so much the better because it adds another 'layer' to consciousness. If it means you express yourself by playing in the puddles with the kids, being free from the self-imposed should-be raises your vibrations.

Ego IS Spiritual growth because without ego we'd be medicated up to the eyeballs in a psyche ward. For all that Spirituality goes on about consciousness and awareness, it's not conscious nor aware of what it's talking about sometimes.

As we have aspects of ourselves - the Spiritual, ego, mind, body, Soul..... that combines into one 'unit'. Each single past Life is another 'unit' and each is an aspect of your Higher Self or whatever else you call whatever is 'up there'. The curious thing that there is no time and both Spirituality and science agree, only science has the better visualisations of how it works. If that's the case, what does that say about 'past' Lives if there is no past? Because while you're asking about what else you are, there's still even more to come.

Namaste Greenslade,

Yes, it can get confusing when it is not understood or made clear as to the context in which "ego" is being talked about.

I tend to relate that everything has a spirituality to it. Nature can show and does show the interactions and connections. Can be observed and felt if one cares to do so. Even if not its influences are felt.

Yes, there are some that choose sides, that pick and choose the parts he/she likes and ignores or find fault with the parts that may not conform to his/her set ways of looking at it.

What I have come across though, this is not the case for all teachings, philosophies, theologies, or realizations. Some look at delving into thoughts and how thoughts may construct what one thinks is real or all there is. Thoughts are just thoughts, until manifested into patterns, habits, actions.

In this way feel psychology and spirituality are not so far apart.

Psychology also has its concepts, labels, theories, and observations. Categorizing the self so that aspects may be examined and explored as to how they fit/influence each other.

This is how I am viewing it at present. The way my mind works is that it views both sides and evaluates what makes sense or can relate and what doesn't.

I can kind of get the whole no "ego" thing if one views oneself as not being parts, but the whole being. For me, this is true in essence, but working through aspects of myself and the interactions that happen in life find this not very practical.

Yes, unless one is completely detached from the world and people ego plays into it all. How it is identified, self image created, world image created in the mind, all seem to play into it.

Some may even say with in the mind it is all a construct, for what is thought to be is not all it is. Which if one desires control, suppose can be quite disturbing.
For another,may just be living as it comes and going on from there, without a care about any of this.

Spirituality can and does get bogged down, in some ways in what gets created from holding too tight to the words and not fully understanding what is actually being pointed at or symbolized.

It, at times, comes across to me like taking a chapter out a book, then saying that is what the book is about.

"Ego" is just one aspect. As you point out there is much more. Can be found through studying psychology on one level. Practicing a spiritual way on another, or just paying attention to what is happening.

We are all of Spirit and therefore spiritual on some level. Some talk about it and others just live it. It is noticed by another. Most of the time not so much one trying to be this or that, but just by the person is being. The presence of another is felt and the energy he/she carries is felt. Ego (self/personality)and all the other parts blending into the mix

Am not all sure where to go with the no time thing. As far as I can gather it all seems to intertwine. What I am experiencing is the present moment, created by what has occurred, creating what will be. All in a continuing movement and intertwined.

Originally Posted by Raziel

"Look mama I'm not reacting" - yes dear well done, now try again without the noise & bravado.

Well yes. I don't do bravado, I just tootle along anyway and just because I don't say too much it doesn't mean I don't know too much - or don't understand everything you've posted. I did enjoy your enthusiasm though, there was a nice energy dynamic that came through.

Originally Posted by Raziel

The realisation that you are not your genetics, your experiences, your mental state, your title - you are all and more.

I came to that realisation a long time ago but now I'm a 'sit on the porch with a few cold beers' kinda guy, I let the younger Souls (yeah I know, no time) run around like kids in a play park, while they're running to stand still I'm standing still to run.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Namaste Greenslade,

Yes, it can get confusing when it is not understood or made clear as to the context in which "ego" is being talked about.

I tend to relate that everything has a spirituality to it. Nature can show and does show the interactions and connections. Can be observed and felt if one cares to do so. Even if not its influences are felt.

Yes, there are some that choose sides, that pick and choose the parts he/she likes and ignores or find fault with the parts that may not conform to his/her set ways of looking at it.

What I have come across though, this is not the case for all teachings, philosophies, theologies, or realizations. Some look at delving into thoughts and how thoughts may construct what one thinks is real or all there is. Thoughts are just thoughts, until manifested into patterns, habits, actions.

In this way feel psychology and spirituality are not so far apart.

Psychology also has its concepts, labels, theories, and observations. Categorizing the self so that aspects may be examined and explored as to how they fit/influence each other.

This is how I am viewing it at present. The way my mind works is that it views both sides and evaluates what makes sense or can relate and what doesn't.

I can kind of get the whole no "ego" thing if one views oneself as not being parts, but the whole being. For me, this is true in essence, but working through aspects of myself and the interactions that happen in life find this not very practical.

Yes, unless one is completely detached from the world and people ego plays into it all. How it is identified, self image created, world image created in the mind, all seem to play into it.

Some may even say with in the mind it is all a construct, for what is thought to be is not all it is. Which if one desires control, suppose can be quite disturbing.
For another,may just be living as it comes and going on from there, without a care about any of this.

Spirituality can and does get bogged down, in some ways in what gets created from holding too tight to the words and not fully understanding what is actually being pointed at or symbolized.

It, at times, comes across to me like taking a chapter out a book, then saying that is what the book is about.

"Ego" is just one aspect. As you point out there is much more. Can be found through studying psychology on one level. Practicing a spiritual way on another, or just paying attention to what is happening.

We are all of Spirit and therefore spiritual on some level. Some talk about it and others just live it. It is noticed by another. Most of the time not so much one trying to be this or that, but just by the person is being. The presence of another is felt and the energy he/she carries is felt. Ego (self/personality)and all the other parts blending into the mix

Am not all sure where to go with the no time thing. As far as I can gather it all seems to intertwine. What I am experiencing is the present moment, created by what has occurred, creating what will be. All in a continuing movement and intertwined.

Namaste Moonglow

The more I've spent time looking objectively at Spirituality and not waxing lyrical about it, the closer to psychology it becomes. At one time I was quite excited at being Spiritual, being on the forums and engaged in all this esoteric stuff but after a while that all died. I think the turning point was when I was building a website of all things to do, and this particular one was giving me problems. To understand the problem better I thought to myself 'What's in it for me?' I asked to same about Spirituality. I also couldn't figure out why any Spirit would choose to Live a 'useless' existence. If we chose our existence here as in Karmic Obligations/Life's Purpose and we were 'here to learn the lessons' then what of people who simply can't process Spirituality because of their genes? Does having 'Spirituality-capable' genes mean that some people are born more equal than others? Does that mean the people who are not Spiritual are doomed to purgatory for eternity?

Strangely enough, Self Actualisation is one of the 'cornerstones' of Spirituality and it's also top of Maslo's Hierarchy of Needs - and Spirituality also fulfils a few more. How much is 'raising your vibrations' and Spiritual development the same as Pavlov's Theory? I went into both of those while I was training the trainers, it was a part of their curriculum for understanding personal development.

The real paradox is is that while people are busting their chops to become 'Spiritually advanced' everything that can happen, is happening or will ever happen is happening because there is no time. So, while we're trying to advance Spiritually we're already there, but we've chosen to forget that so we can feel better about working on our Spiritual advancement.

Being Spiritual is a self-image just the same as anything else in the 'real world' and people identify with Spirituality and being Spiritual just the same as they identify with being a football fan. The only difference is that Spiritual consciousness is 'higher grade' and more important than any other. Allegedly.

It's all layers, as Raziel there points out.

But how much of any development - personal. Spiritual or any other - depends on you being you and me being me? If there was no you and no me we couldn't have this conversation, you wouldn't be able to see you because I'm not here to reflect you and there wouldn't be a you to reflect. The way things are gives us a good, solid feeling that you are you and I am me, and therefore we can interact. It's a process of individuation that's going on, not one of unity - we came from unity.

You can't run away from who and what you are, although many would rather not look at certain aspects.

In Spirituality, there being no time is a lovely concept and something to trot out when you want to sound Spiritual, yet still the conversations go to their being a concept of time. If there is no time then what happens to Spiritual development, karma, Past Lives????? Wrinkles?? Nobody has explained why I have wrinkles if there is no time.