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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #21  
Old 01-05-2018, 09:49 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
I'm aloud to comment on a news article. There's no problem with that.
Of course..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
I'm not here to solve the problem within the farming community. That's not my job. That's for the farmers and Veterinary community.
It's in everyone's interest. This is about our food, our water and air quality, and our shared environment. We influence the processes by how we consume, and how we vote, and whether we are actively supporting interest groups or not. This is all part of a healthy democracy. It's not just up to specialists just as we can't rely on government alone..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
Why the heck would I ever want to subject myself to that? I'm not watching pro-vegan documentaries. No way. I learned that lesson after watching an over-dramatized PETA video. That would be a waste of time considering their bias.
Why..? Because you apparently value education and rationality, so no harm in reading scientific journals and articles about the environment, land use planning, water management. There's a whole range of fields connected to each other here..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
As for visiting, um no. I'm not a nature girl. I'm much happier at home, but thank you. Closest I got was in North Carolina across from a pig slaughterhouse. You could smell it for miles.
Put a shawl to your nose.. that way you don't have to worry about the smell and you can continue the research..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
That was enough for me. It's you guys who took up this cause, not me. Therefore, it's you who can do the visiting and research.
I have no desire to visit a slaughterhouse..
I did visit a concentration camp once, in Germany. I saw how the camp inmates used to live, how they were treated. It is reminiscent to how we treat animals..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
My area is Medical Science. That's the area I chose to spend my time researching.
Any person professing an interest in science and education should look beyond one specialized field, especially if engaging in topics out of one's expertise..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
Now you're just stretching things. The point was made because we're all animals. Or, do you not believe we're animals and we're actually above them? In other words, every animal has to eat and every animal does so.
We are also a very specific animal.. a human being.. something that is often forgotten.. Humans are capable of transcending nature and going above natural instinct..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
I know about the issue with cats and the birds. Again though, that's nature. Cats are being cats, that's what they do. It's natural.
I don't blame the cats. It's the cat owners who should look into these issues and keep the cats inside. That way we can keep gardens diverse.
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:22 AM
LillyBelle LillyBelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Of course..

It's in everyone's interest. This is about our food, our water and air quality, and our shared environment. We influence the processes by how we consume, and how we vote, and whether we are actively supporting interest groups or not. This is all part of a healthy democracy. It's not just up to specialists just as we can't rely on government alone..

No, we can't rely on Government alone. However, I did not take up this cause. I don't see a reason to.

Quote:
Why..? Because you apparently value education and rationality, so no harm in reading scientific journals and articles about the environment, land use planning, water management. There's a whole range of fields connected to each other here..

Yes, I could. However, most of the time I simply disagree. I don't believe in Global Warming, recycling etc. I just don't.

Quote:
Put a shawl to your nose.. that way you don't have to worry about the smell and you can continue the research..

That really wouldn't help very much. Also, I don't want to research this..

Quote:
I have no desire to visit a slaughterhouse..
I did visit a concentration camp once, in Germany. I saw how the camp inmates used to live, how they were treated. It is reminiscent to how we treat animals..

Then, why would you tell me to do it?

Quote:
Any person professing an interest in science and education should look beyond one specialized field, especially if engaging in topics out of one's expertise..

This is true. I do sometimes watch a Documentary or read a Science article about other things. However, I'm simply not interested in matters regarding Global Warming, Solar Power or other such issues.

Quote:
We are also a very specific animal.. a human being.. something that is often forgotten.. Humans are capable of transcending nature and going above natural instinct..

It depends on who you talk to. Some can't.

Quote:
I don't blame the cats. It's the cat owners who should look into these issues and keep the cats inside. That way we can keep gardens diverse.

Well, there I agree with you, just for a different reason. It's very much in the best interest of the cat to be kept indoors. Cats are much safer indoors.
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:30 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Lightbulb Ignorance is harmful

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
Yes, I could. However, most of the time I simply disagree. I don't believe in Global Warming, recycling etc. I just don't.
In that case you are denying the continued work and scientific efforts and research by 98% of scientists who work in the field of environmental science. It does not matter whether you or me 'believe' in global warming and climate change, just as it does not matter whether we do or do not 'believe' in evolution. These things happen, they are real. There were more cold winters and snow when my parents grew up then when I did. But changes tend to happen slowly, so we adapt to them, and get used to them. But the long term pattern is clear. We can see trends when it comes to sea levels, melting ice caps and glaciers, temperature rises.

There are also changes in species' behaviour such as bird migration patterns. I guess some of my colleagues doing research in it are just idiots and I better turn to Fox News or Breitbart if I want to understand animal behaviour and how climate changes them..

I have an older brother who is very much like you in that regard. He says there is no global warming and climate change, yet he has no profession in the field or sufficient knowledge about the topic. He also has zero interest in nature so he does not observe patterns in nature. Doesn't read about it, shows no interest in it. Instead of looking at the science and observing the world he turns to crackpot websites that have zero scientific credibility.

It's all very surreal.. basing an opinion about something without actually checking the science and making observations..
Funny that Shell and co. already knew about it in the 1970s, but choose to do nothing about it.

Like you said..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
Also, I don't want to research this..
I do sometimes watch a Documentary or read a Science article about other things. However, I'm simply not interested in matters regarding Global Warming, Solar Power or other such issues.
So..
  • You have no interest in these topics..
  • You have ''sometimes'' watched a docu or read an article about it..
.. and yet you think this is enough to make extraordinary claims about science and completely deny the work 98% of scientists put into this. That is very dishonest and not an attitude a person with a science degree should have..

As for solar panels.. if you ever buy your own house you may be interested in them as it isn't just better for the environment but it will safe you money and make you less dependent on big companies. Of course it would help if your government would give people incentives in that regard but at the moment it's not looking that great. They prefer to keep the people dependent upon the existing energy system, in line with party promises made to fossil fuel sponsors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
Well, there I agree with you, just for a different reason. It's very much in the best interest of the cat to be kept indoors. Cats are much safer indoors.
Right, so when it concerns the safety and possible deaths of cats you are concerned, yet when it concerns other animals you deliberately turn a blind eye. Why the difference? I can only assume you are a cat owner yourself, and because of that you feel attachment to cat(s). This means your sense of care for animals is limited and based on personal attachments..
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:55 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
You want a spiritual view point? Okay. All animals eat each other. It's the circle of life. The only reason we're different is because we're the only ones feeling bad about it. Yet, ironically ask almost anyone and they'll think their cat or dog is more spiritually aware then them. The same cat who just killed a bird outside in their front yard.

You are correct....it is the circle of life...something the vegan crowd completely ignores as there's is not just a dietary choice but a militant political movement disguised as a diet whose mission is to convert everyone to there way of thinking ...or else.

Instead of these's types of vegans saying....I don't like how animals are treated so I will not add to the problem by consuming them which is a totally fair sentiment to have...if that's how they feel...so be it!

But no! They don't leave it at that! You have groups of them camped out in front of restaurants that serve meat...like a steak house for example chanting and carrying signs and protesting.....

Which to my way of thinking is acting crazy....and like my grandmother told me when I was a kid...."if someone is acting crazy....it's a good bet that they are in fact crazy"!

And like you....I am also extremely skeptical of the global warming thing too and understand the science more than well enough to be quite sure its baloney and the "98% of scientists agree on global warming thing" has been thoroughly debunked and is a made up number...there is currently a petition against the idea of man-made climate change circulating through the science community... around the world.. that has at this point more than 32,000 signatures from top scientists saying man-made climate change is nonsense

And for everyone's general FYI...I don't consume very much red meat...perhaps a small portion once or twice per week... and when I say small I mean maybe 4 ounces and its wild meat...usually venison that I killed myself....mostly I am a near vegetarian with some wild caught fish thrown in a few times per week.

Why? because statistically people who consume a lot of red meat...especially commercially raised red meat don't live as long .....and all the credible evidence shows that pescatarians...those who are near vegetarians but also consume small portions of oily fish live the longest.

And judging by my physical condition at the age of 56 and having the blood work to back it up...barring some stupid accident...I'm going to be around a whole lot longer!
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I'm living on "tropical standard time"!!!

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Last edited by Lucky 1 : 01-05-2018 at 04:48 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:01 PM
LillyBelle LillyBelle is offline
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My goodness you have been making so many assumptions about me. I don't know why you think you can accurately do that, but so far you haven't gotten one right, yet.

Quote:
In that case you are denying the continued work and scientific efforts and research by 98% of scientists who work in the field of environmental science. It does not matter whether you or me 'believe' in global warming and climate change, just as it does not matter whether we do or do not 'believe' in evolution. These things happen, they are real. There were more cold winters and snow when my parents grew up then when I did. But changes tend to happen slowly, so we adapt to them, and get used to them. But the long term pattern is clear. We can see trends when it comes to sea levels, melting ice caps and glaciers, temperature rises.

There are also changes in species' behaviour such as bird migration patterns. I guess some of my colleagues doing research in it are just idiots and I better turn to Fox News or Breitbart if I want to understand animal behaviour and how climate changes them..

I don't deny that the climate is changing. However, this isn't the first time and won't be the last. Climate changes, that's just how it is. We had an ice age before, now we're having a warm period.

Quote:
I have an older brother who is very much like you in that regard. He says there is no global warming and climate change, yet he has no profession in the field or sufficient knowledge about the topic. He also has zero interest in nature so he does not observe patterns in nature. Doesn't read about it, shows no interest in it. Instead of looking at the science and observing the world he turns to crackpot websites that have zero scientific credibility.

It's all very surreal.. basing an opinion about something without actually checking the science and making observations..
Funny that Shell and co. already knew about it in the 1970s, but choose to do nothing about it.

I don't know about your Brother, but I can assure you I'm not wasting my time on 'crackpot' websites to get information about these issues. I merely don't worry about it. I don't believe in Global Warming so, I have no reason to read up on it. Climate Change is a thing, but I just don't think we need to be alarmed. The climate of the Earth has changed for years.


Quote:

So..
  • You have no interest in these topics..
  • You have ''sometimes'' watched a docu or read an article about it..
.. and yet you think this is enough to make extraordinary claims about science and completely deny the work 98% of scientists put into this. That is very dishonest and not an attitude a person with a science degree should have..

Nope. I have never watched a documentary about Global Warming. I didn't make any extraordinary claims. If someone asks I'll tell them currently the Scientific Community believes in Climate Change. I, however, do not. Though, that's my opinion. Which is fine. You're welcome to your opinion. Though, you cannot make the claim that your opinion is fact. Which, I have not done.

Quote:
As for solar panels.. if you ever buy your own house you may be interested in them as it isn't just better for the environment but it will safe you money and make you less dependent on big companies. Of course it would help if your government would give people incentives in that regard but at the moment it's not looking that great. They prefer to keep the people dependent upon the existing energy system, in line with party promises made to fossil fuel sponsors.

My Sister-In-Law looked into that on her own. She said that in my area it would not be financially helpful. Though, she believes in some areas it would be.

Quote:
Right, so when it concerns the safety and possible deaths of cats you are concerned, yet when it concerns other animals you deliberately turn a blind eye. Why the difference? I can only assume you are a cat owner yourself, and because of that you feel attachment to cat(s). This means your sense of care for animals is limited and based on personal attachments..

Here we have yet, another assumption about me. I don't just care about cats. I care about all animals. However, I also understand that I have to eat. I don't like that animals have to die, but I have to eat. I'm a living, breathing, sentient being who needs food to live. I told you, it's nature. Animals eat each other.
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  #26  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:35 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
My goodness you have been making so many assumptions about me. I don't know why you think you can accurately do that, but so far you haven't gotten one right, yet.
I've gotten it all correct, as you clearly admitted a lack of interest in science as well as observing nature. In that case it is best to make no wild claims about global warming not happening. You could simply state.. I don't know, because I don't read about it, aren't qualified in the field, and don't observe nature..

I don't know all that much about Medical Science. Do you want me to turn to wild conspiracies about Big Pharma, based on some nonsense I could find on crackpot websites or from politicians who tweet about it..? I don't think so..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
I don't deny that the climate is changing. However, this isn't the first time and won't be the last. Climate changes, that's just how it is. We had an ice age before, now we're having a warm period.
Hang on, you now admit we are having a warm period..
I think you need to re-examine your own words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
I don't know about your Brother, but I can assure you I'm not wasting my time on 'crackpot' websites to get information about these issues. I merely don't worry about it. I don't believe in Global Warming so, I have no reason to read up on it. Climate Change is a thing, but I just don't think we need to be alarmed. The climate of the Earth has changed for years.
If you have no interest in it whatsoever then you shouldn't make such wild claims. It's like when someone makes wild false claims about your medical science.. claims that are deliberately spreading disinformation that would harm the people you seek to help..

As for it ''not being a thing'' - You go and tell that to the Maldives, or to Dutch people living near the coast, or to communities making a living out of winter ski resorts, or farmers and their crop yields..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
Nope. I have never watched a documentary about Global Warming. I didn't make any extraordinary claims. If someone asks I'll tell them currently the Scientific Community believes in Climate Change. I, however, do not. Though, that's my opinion. Which is fine. You're welcome to your opinion. Though, you cannot make the claim that your opinion is fact. Which, I have not done.
Global warming isn't an ''opinion'' - it's an observable fact based on clear data concerning ice caps, glaciers, temperatures, and species' behaviour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
I have never watched a documentary about Global Warming
I mean.. LOL.. Goodness gracious..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
Here we have yet, another assumption about me. I don't just care about cats. I care about all animals.
What about the song birds you choose to ignore? What about the pigs and cows send to the slaughterhouse..?
Yes you need to eat, but you do not have to eat these animals in order to be healthy..

Of course, it is your choice.. but to claim eating them is a necessity would be incorrect.
And ''care'' seems to be based on personal attachment here.. the perspective of a cat owner!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LillyBelle
I told you, it's nature. Animals eat each other.
What animals do is no guideline to human behaviour.
Cats also kill each other, lions kill each other. Should we humans kill each other? If the answer is a no you are destroying your own argument..
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2018, 04:01 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair

Global warming isn't an ''opinion'' - it's an observable fact based on clear data concerning ice caps, glaciers, temperatures, and species' behaviour.


Not wanting to muck up the vegan thread with global warming nonsense...but since you've said this I feel compelled to respond....

In case you haven't noticed...global temperatures have fallen for the last 3 years in a row and we are entering a global cooling period....

Here's a few "observable facts" for you....we have had snow in the tropics for the last 3 years...places like the Sahara desert and Hawaii.....As per NASA, arctic ice has been at record levels on and off the last 3 years.

We've had record cold spells all over the planet....right here where I live in southern Texas where I live ...a sub-tropical area... we are having an unusually cool spring....

So LillyBelle is right......climate comes and goes....colder ...hotter...colder again as it always will and humans can do nothing about that.

I will also note that cold periods have always been far harder on the human species than hot periods...
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Please don't tell my mom I'm in the oil industry. ...she still thinks I'm a piano player in a *****house!

I'm living on "tropical standard time"!!!

Yes I Am a Pirate! 200 years too late....the cannons don't thunder...there's nothing to plunder...I'm an over 40 victim of fate!
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  #28  
Old 01-05-2018, 04:07 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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.........And yeah...I probably would have bought the kid an ice cream too! (getting this back on track)
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Please don't tell my mom I'm in the oil industry. ...she still thinks I'm a piano player in a *****house!

I'm living on "tropical standard time"!!!

Yes I Am a Pirate! 200 years too late....the cannons don't thunder...there's nothing to plunder...I'm an over 40 victim of fate!
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  #29  
Old 01-05-2018, 04:25 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Yes, there has been a cold spell where I live as well, but global warming is just what it says and is indifferent to regional differences. While we in Europe had a cold spell, the region around the north pole was having record breaking temperatures.

The ''climate is always changing'' is not a helpful thought. We constantly change the land based on environmental changes. If sea levels rise we need to change land and land use, if glaciers melt we have smaller rivers and lower crop yield..

What I find worrying is that many people buy into so called ''skepticism'' and are unaware of where they get their thoughts from.
Even fossil fuel companies acknowledged global warming..
https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warmin...g#.WuiO4nm-mUk
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-40-years-ago/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ican-campaigns

You have to wonder who gain from all of this ''climate skepticism''.
Well, at least here in Europe many people are aware of the issue. Even ''skeptics'' often see the use of renewable energy. We also know these new sectors generate more jobs and more decentralized energy. Everyone gains from a new system.. cleaner air and water, decentralized energy. But Shell et al. do not gain much, unless they figure out how to transition!

The US is missing out.. By the time most of Europe and Asia will have an economy largely run on sustainable energy the US will still have to figure out how to even start. And that's tough when you have a system in which government is not allowed to do much spatial planning. Interesting to see where they'll be in 30 years..

EDIT: Will put it just here to prevent off-topic content..
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
https://www.livescience.com/60868-ex...s-records.html
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IO...w.php?id=80167
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  #30  
Old 01-05-2018, 04:38 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Yes, there has been a cold spell where I live as well, but global warming is just what it says and is indifferent to regional differences. While we in Europe had a cold spell, the region around the north pole was having record breaking temperatures.

It's not just a cold spell or confined to one region....global temperatures have in fact fallen for the last three years and most areas have had record low temperatures.....

It actually appears that we are heading into a long predicted period of reduced solar activity known as the "maunder minimum"

So you want to talk climate change???...Fine...its going to get colder......after that cycle it will probably get hotter again......and there's not a damn thing we can do about it either way.......there you go.
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Please don't tell my mom I'm in the oil industry. ...she still thinks I'm a piano player in a *****house!

I'm living on "tropical standard time"!!!

Yes I Am a Pirate! 200 years too late....the cannons don't thunder...there's nothing to plunder...I'm an over 40 victim of fate!
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