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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #31  
Old 15-06-2018, 08:59 AM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
It's a nature fallacy when honey is justified but eggs and milk are not. You seem to be under the impression that chickens and cows are performing unnatural behaviours because they have been used and bred by humans for specific purposes. They do however perform totally natural behaviours.. we have just changed them. We do the same with all the other domesticated animals..



You are using the bees and the product they make.. They continue their work because you want them too..
What we should ask is whether the use of this or that animal leads to slaughter and inflicting pain, and whether it is or isn't environmentally sound..

But they're an active breed capable of such work. Could be a sled, could be something else. Different breeds.. different doggy needs.
Are we only to passively observe animals.. and pretend we have no relationship with them?

What is the big deal anyway? We are the only ones that communicate through the internet. We build cars and space ships. We write and we talk.
Tigers have unique stripes. Chameleons change colour. Are they all anomalies?

But again the nature argument. We are unique.. we change the world, ourselves, and even other species..
Nature is not the guideline as to how we should behave. We write that guideline ourselves.. based on human wisdom, or spiritual wisdom.
***************
I was reading a study this morning about the development of oviduct cancers in hens from the constant daily 'menses' that she was force to live with. Natural birds don't do that. And the article mentioned a great deal of them develop ovarian cancers and it muses on the potential connect between human ovarian cancer and what those poor birds get. Remember that people could get mad cow disease from mad cows??? And now, eggs and ovarian cancer???

Just as a note, a hen could live 10-20 years. Commercial hens die after 2. And if you rescue a commercial hen, constant egg laying will start to cause those tumours to take their lives around 2.5 years. I've lost several hens this way. Doing fine, great food, their own yard with tall grasses and partly in the woods and suddenly one day, their not getting out of bed and with four days, their gone. Couldn't hide their suffering any more which is why I noticed then they weren't feeling well.

Bees continue their work because they are bees. And if we quit using their honey, they would still continue their real work which is to pollinate plants (and that's the only benefit we should involve ourselves with).

Dogs are our companions, period. Sometimes they can help us but in their case, with the right dog, they truly do want to be there for you. For others, not so much. But other than the KINDEST involvement with them service wise, we should live with them as our friends. Same with cats (because my cat is fabulous and deserves only love). And if a dog loves running, then the guardian has a responsibility to make their life good and full (just like if we have kids) and take him where he can safely run, or whatever his joy.

Don't PRETEND you have a relationship or connection with animals! RECOGNIZE that all humanity HAS a connection with them. They are truly part of us and part of our world. From a scientific and quantum science perspective, they are the same as us, they are part of us and they are here for THEIR purposes, not ours.

And nature absolutely is the last word on how we should be. If you look at the physiology of humans, from jaws to teeth to digestive acids, to guts and what makes guts healthy, it's plants for dinner. Or it should be. That humans learned to eat meat is a detour from what is good for these bodies and the many killer diseases are a testimony to that in our culture. It should be noted that a proper, balanced vegan diet is better for your health than a diet that is meat/dairy inclusive. Those facts might explain why Texas Midland Memorial Hospital made the bold decision to start offering their vegan menus ahead of anything else AND giving classes to patients and staff on how to cook vegan and why it's better. So it's not just me, the grandma who is saying this, but medical health professionals are starting to recognize the need for a drastic, life saving change in how we eat.

And nature tells us how to get along with each other too. All you have to do is watch a room full of young children of mixed races playing together. They have to be taught to hate, to be unkind.....We are part of nature no less than every last animal, including the ones that we've created, are part of nature. You can't dismiss nature to understand how you should eat and relate to animals.

And the final end while still babies or in their youth.....is an end that is horrible and terrifying for them. They say that pigs are as smart as a three year old child. Imagine that child loaded naked in winter into a transport truck box with a bunch of other kids, and their driven to a slaughterhouse. If the ones who might not have frozen to death in the winter, could smell as good as the pigs can, five miles out, they'd be smelling blood and fear and death. Children would be terrified and the pigs know. They are babies and they are terrified.
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  #32  
Old 15-06-2018, 09:19 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Bunny To lay or not to lay an egg...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
Bees continue their work because they are bees. And if we quit using their honey, they would still continue their real work which is to pollinate plates (and that's the only benefit we should involve ourselves with).
Yes true, but hens will continue to lay eggs even if you never take them. A hen's only an egg's way of making another egg! I think it's the best option to take eggs otherwise the barns will be overflown with too many chickens who would at some point have to be killed or sold. This is an uneasy reality and one that vegans in my opinion just don't get. Taking the eggs is best..

I agree on dogs, though it saddens me that we treat dogs as an industry too in a way. We take the pups from their mother, and even when the dog gets used to the new situation surely this is not ideal..? And you say when a dog loves running, but we have bred certain dog breeds to be runners and carriers and yet you would be against that because we are ''using'' them and it not being natural (if I follow your argument you made before). So where to draw the lines between using and not using. Taking a pup from his/her mother is human insecurity and human need to 'use' an animal for a specific purpose too (the need for friendship, affection, making pictures to put on Facebook etc. so they get enough online attention). I mean, don't put all your eggs in one basket! Debrah I hope you can see that this isn't all that clear..

And by the way, I think we should really quit this conversation about eggs.. let us not be hardboiled eggs! Lets not egg each other on...
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  #33  
Old 18-06-2018, 06:59 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Yes true, but hens will continue to lay eggs even if you never take them. A hen's only an egg's way of making another egg! I think it's the best option to take eggs otherwise the barns will be overflown with too many chickens who would at some point have to be killed or sold. This is an uneasy reality and one that vegans in my opinion just don't get. Taking the eggs is best..

I agree on dogs, though it saddens me that we treat dogs as an industry too in a way. We take the pups from their mother, and even when the dog gets used to the new situation surely this is not ideal..? And you say when a dog loves running, but we have bred certain dog breeds to be runners and carriers and yet you would be against that because we are ''using'' them and it not being natural (if I follow your argument you made before). So where to draw the lines between using and not using. Taking a pup from his/her mother is human insecurity and human need to 'use' an animal for a specific purpose too (the need for friendship, affection, making pictures to put on Facebook etc. so they get enough online attention). I mean, don't put all your eggs in one basket! Debrah I hope you can see that this isn't all that clear..

And by the way, I think we should really quit this conversation about eggs.. let us not be hardboiled eggs! Lets not egg each other on...

The species of hens alive today are artificial and for their own good should be allowed to die off. And your suggestion of 'taking away their eggs otherwise the barns will be overflowing with chickens..' makes no sense. Those eggs aren't fertile, hence no 'overflow'. Each of those hens laid her first egg at about 16 weeks. They will live in darkness and filth for about 24 months and then they are either gassed or in some cases buried alive or hauled to a facility in all weather to be abused and killed. And vegans get all of that. Not being hatched in the first place is best, whether you are a tiny rooster chick or a hen chick.

As a point of interest that all men should know, I was reading a summary of a study that showed that 2.5 eggs per week, increases a man's chance of prostate cancer by 80%. No health benefits there wouldn't you say? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3232297/

As for dogs, let them be dogs and quit using them for our entertainment because that is not natural. We've developed mutant breeds that suffer because of it (bulldogs, boxers, dachshunds, etc.), again for our amusement. Never mind that they can't breathe, have skin problems because of the folds....cocker spaniels with ear problems, chihuahua's with teeth issues, eye issues....because we think they're cute despite their medical issues. And to go from the bad to the absolutely vile, that the sweet breeds like beagles are chosen for experimenting on because they are sweet, gentle and less likely to fight back than others.....and all of this is supported and promoted by a meat consuming global society because 'we've' talked ourselves into believing it's not only okay but a good thing.

Til the day I die, I will never quit this conversation about eggs, dogs, pigs, cows and their calves and every other animal that suffers at the hands of humanity. What kind of person would I be if I didn't speak out against abuse and suffering?
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