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  #51  
Old 19-03-2019, 06:44 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
I enjoyed reading this (the most recent post) Gem.

I feel that I myself have a strong desire for pleasure and aversion to suffering, and your post actually helps me see that more clearly.

For me personally, my greatest craving is for LOVE.

Is that different from other craving (for pleasure)?

Does Buddhism treat the desire for love or approval in the same way it treats the craving for pleasure?

Can the same approach be used? Does the Eightfold Path help with that?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well, no one wants pain, and everyone wants pleasure, but the truth is life experience has both.

....
Because the meditator has practiced equanimity and become strong and stable in mindful balance, they are not easily disturbed anymore and can remain still during quite extreme experiences, so the old 'contents' which led to shame and unworthy feelings start to come up in their own time at their own rate like 'emotional storms', but you remain still and unaffected, just knowing, this is a storm which is now passing.

The practice itself always remains the same: Be perfectly still in yourself no matter what happens. It is the same approach for a first time meditator or a 60 year adept: conscious awareness with equanimity.

The 8path is about what is 'right', so mindfulness incorporates 'right observation' (see it 'as it is'), and 'right concentration' (awareness with equanimity).

A very nice thread on metta and sharing our thoughts...

I liked this discussion on cravings & the "3 cravings" from sky123 (a bit like the more elaborate "7 deadly sins", which are actually just finer grades of cravings).

I have meditated and done lucid meditations, some guided, daily for many years now.

Night before last I had a dream and it became lucid part-way through. I was experiencing it "live" and couldn't see myself, but I wanted to be fully present in it and so I went with it. I was darting out ahead of the superfast passenger transport with another small child...seemed just car or so at a time...white and shiny, mag lev-type stuff in some other time and place, not exactly this one but one I knew well...it was dusk and then getting dark. We knew the route...I ran ahead across the small tracks and nervously waited for him to come quick...said "back" several times as it came round blind corners. Running barefoot in the wet grass...little maniacs we were. Then dropping into a window after dark more than 2 floors ups, probably 3...wet shirts and shoes left in a puddle...into a room for bath where an older boy pretended not to see us sneak into the bath in our shorts.

As the dream snip ended, I took hold at the end and brought us to my meditation place, where I could "see" all round. We were young boys of eight or so, laughing with the sheer joy of being small and free and having snuck out under the radar with your best mate. We looked just alike -- it was my twin brother with me. From another life.

The sense of sheer joy has stayed with me since then. I find myself craving that freedom and that acceptance and that joy...full disclosure. This simple love and friendship and at-one-ness. And not just for myself in this time, but for all beings in all times.

I wish for all beings this simple joy, love, and friendship.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #52  
Old 19-03-2019, 10:18 PM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
A very nice thread on metta and sharing our thoughts...

I liked this discussion on cravings & the "3 cravings" from sky123 (a bit like the more elaborate "7 deadly sins", which are actually just finer grades of cravings).

I have meditated and done lucid meditations, some guided, daily for many years now.

Night before last I had a dream and it became lucid part-way through. I was experiencing it "live" and couldn't see myself, but I wanted to be fully present in it and so I went with it. I was darting out ahead of the superfast passenger transport with another small child...seemed just car or so at a time...white and shiny, mag lev-type stuff in some other time and place, not exactly this one but one I knew well...it was dusk and then getting dark. We knew the route...I ran ahead across the small tracks and nervously waited for him to come quick...said "back" several times as it came round blind corners. Running barefoot in the wet grass...little maniacs we were. Then dropping into a window after dark more than 2 floors ups, probably 3...wet shirts and shoes left in a puddle...into a room for bath where an older boy pretended not to see us sneak into the bath in our shorts.

As the dream snip ended, I took hold at the end and brought us to my meditation place, where I could "see" all round. We were young boys of eight or so, laughing with the sheer joy of being small and free and having snuck out under the radar with your best mate. We looked just alike -- it was my twin brother with me. From another life.

The sense of sheer joy has stayed with me since then. I find myself craving that freedom and that acceptance and that joy...full disclosure. This simple love and friendship and at-one-ness. And not just for myself in this time, but for all beings in all times.

I wish for all beings this simple joy, love, and friendship.

Peace & blessings
7L
Hello 7L
Reading your dream had me reflecting upon a line in your sharing-“we knew the route”

Through the unknown/unrealised awareness that we house as potential, craving and desire is a catalyst to moving closer to, that which is seeking us. When we come face to face with that remembrance, everything falls away, because we feel the joy in finding the true source. The desires and cravings that lend us to find a substitute of learning, still support us to understand both the cravings and desires along with the true authentic source seeking us, through the lived experience.

I’ve noticed as someone who loves now without attachment, who understands love just, I notice others around me attached to love itself, in fear of losing it. (It tends to draw the opposite closer to your realised state) So, as I see this those desires and cravings are important to the finding of what is seeking us to remember. The desires and cravings in any fear, consistently bring them closer to it all to see how love is being held, to see and notice what containment they hold their love to within themselves. To see that they are love. Love as their own pure source and connection. When that realisation comes from within, the self understands and ends the seeking to bring it to light. From there that light will be sourced for others as they need.

People see me and how I love now, and as that model, it’s a very different love that can feel very unfamiliar to their normal conditioned human ideas of love. I can see them looking at me, into my being and remembering for themselves. It becomes familiar to their own knowing in resonation. It isn’t attached or needs or desires to be or make be. It holds all things lightly. It understands its own freedom and how others can set themselves free. It comes from my being of love for self. It’s an extension of what I have remembered in me for myself, through all life. It extends as I feel, aware and realised. It manifests into the lived experience as such, to support others remembrance.
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  #53  
Old 20-03-2019, 02:56 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
Hello 7L
Reading your dream had me reflecting upon a line in your sharing-“we knew the route”

Through the unknown/unrealised awareness that we house as potential, craving and desire is a catalyst to moving closer to, that which is seeking us. When we come face to face with that remembrance, everything falls away, because we feel the joy in finding the true source. The desires and cravings that lend us to find a substitute of learning, still support us to understand both the cravings and desires along with the true authentic source seeking us, through the lived experience.

I’ve noticed as someone who loves now without attachment, who understands love just, I notice others around me attached to love itself, in fear of losing it. (It tends to draw the opposite closer to your realised state) So, as I see this those desires and cravings are important to the finding of what is seeking us to remember. The desires and cravings in any fear, consistently bring them closer to it all to see how love is being held, to see and notice what containment they hold their love to within themselves. To see that they are love. Love as their own pure source and connection. When that realisation comes from within, the self understands and ends the seeking to bring it to light. From there that light will be sourced for others as they need.

People see me and how I love now, and as that model, it’s a very different love that can feel very unfamiliar to their normal conditioned human ideas of love. I can see them looking at me, into my being and remembering for themselves. It becomes familiar to their own knowing in resonation. It isn’t attached or needs or desires to be or make be. It holds all things lightly.

It understands its own freedom and how others can set themselves free. It comes from my being of love for self. It’s an extension of what I have remembered in me for myself, through all life. It extends as I feel, aware and realised. It manifests into the lived experience as such, to support others remembrance.

JustBe -- hello there!
Very nicely said. Agreed.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #54  
Old 29-03-2019, 04:27 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Location: Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
A very nice thread on metta and sharing our thoughts...

I liked this discussion on cravings & the "3 cravings" from sky123 (a bit like the more elaborate "7 deadly sins", which are actually just finer grades of cravings).

I have meditated and done lucid meditations, some guided, daily for many years now.

Night before last I had a dream and it became lucid part-way through. I was experiencing it "live" and couldn't see myself, but I wanted to be fully present in it and so I went with it. I was darting out ahead of the superfast passenger transport with another small child...seemed just car or so at a time...white and shiny, mag lev-type stuff in some other time and place, not exactly this one but one I knew well...it was dusk and then getting dark. We knew the route...I ran ahead across the small tracks and nervously waited for him to come quick...said "back" several times as it came round blind corners. Running barefoot in the wet grass...little maniacs we were. Then dropping into a window after dark more than 2 floors ups, probably 3...wet shirts and shoes left in a puddle...into a room for bath where an older boy pretended not to see us sneak into the bath in our shorts.

As the dream snip ended, I took hold at the end and brought us to my meditation place, where I could "see" all round. We were young boys of eight or so, laughing with the sheer joy of being small and free and having snuck out under the radar with your best mate. We looked just alike -- it was my twin brother with me. From another life.

The sense of sheer joy has stayed with me since then. I find myself craving that freedom and that acceptance and that joy...full disclosure. This simple love and friendship and at-one-ness. And not just for myself in this time, but for all beings in all times.

I wish for all beings this simple joy, love, and friendship.

Peace & blessings
7L


Speaking of 'craving' there are simplifications that serve teaching purposes, but the word 'tanha' (craving) includes both aversion and desire, these two being unified and inseparable, and where this concerns suffering, craving is the reactions to sensations. Hence in the discourse on dependent arisings, from vedana (sensations) tanha (craving) arises.


The meditation is sensation based, so breath awareness is actually being aware of the sensation of breathing, and body awareness is awareness of sensations in the body. Mind awareness is slightly different because it means being aware of mental rather than physical phenomena, but on closer examination, the body and mind is a unified aggregate or phenom.


The idea behind mindfulness is to break the link between sensation and craving. Hence be sensation pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral, the mind remains the same, balanced, rather than entering into the old habits of reacting with aversion and desire - which are unified by the term 'craving'.


This is achieved by being consciously aware of sensation and seeing for yourself how craving arises from sensation. Then, by looking into the fundamental nature sensation: impermanence; you know, regardless of it being pleasurable, unpleasant or neutral, it changes momentarily and 'this too will pass'.
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  #55  
Old 29-03-2019, 06:40 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Speaking of 'craving' there are simplifications that serve teaching purposes, but the word 'tanha' (craving) includes both aversion and desire, these two being unified and inseparable, and where this concerns suffering, craving is the reactions to sensations. Hence in the discourse on dependent arisings, from vedana (sensations) tanha (craving) arises.


The meditation is sensation based, so breath awareness is actually being aware of the sensation of breathing, and body awareness is awareness of sensations in the body. Mind awareness is slightly different because it means being aware of mental rather than physical phenomena, but on closer examination, the body and mind is a unified aggregate or phenom.


The idea behind mindfulness is to break the link between sensation and craving. Hence be sensation pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral, the mind remains the same, balanced, rather than entering into the old habits of reacting with aversion and desire - which are unified by the term 'craving'.


This is achieved by being consciously aware of sensation and seeing for yourself how craving arises from sensation. Then, by looking into the fundamental nature sensation: impermanence; you know, regardless of it being pleasurable, unpleasant or neutral, it changes momentarily and 'this too will pass'.

Gem hello there. Yes even that wonderful moment had its time in the annals of what is and then it passed. Like all moments pass. You're right that the incessant striving for only moments like these, or only bliss, etc., is a huge craving (perhaps one made manifest and tended to incessantly as well...). And it's not settling into the fullness of what is, which is more than just the moments of joyful or blissful experience. And it is certainly more than oppressive or slavish seeking of only these sorts of moments.

It did also point me to something else, however. Something more subtle. It pointed me back to the sublime joy of being here now. It reminded me that our true nature reflects this immediacy and presence, and that there is joy in simply that. Regardless of how it feels and regardless that that too shall pass. But it also pointed me to the apprehension that ultimately, the sublime joy is the true joy. It is the true bliss. The deepest and most foundational bliss (hyperboles aside ).

It's that apprehension -- and that sublime joy -- is what I wish for everyone and for all things.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #56  
Old 15-04-2019, 04:48 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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This thread was the first time I had heard of Metta, which “(in Theravada Buddhist) meditation focuses on the development of unconditional love for all beings”.

Since my understanding of love is non-dual - this holds truth for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7GtZpQVU-Y

I couldn’t quite get to the meaning of Metta through the pages of this thread – not until I listened to a talk “If you truly love me don’t create me in your mind” (Metta 19:44 onwards):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPaUawp_oUk

I found the talk quite straightforward – like - aren’t these the same insights all meditators get?

*
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  #57  
Old 15-04-2019, 08:05 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
This thread was the first time I had heard of Metta, which “(in Theravada Buddhist) meditation focuses on the development of unconditional love for all beings”.

Since my understanding of love is non-dual - this holds truth for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7GtZpQVU-Y

I couldn’t quite get to the meaning of Metta through the pages of this thread – not until I listened to a talk “If you truly love me don’t create me in your mind” (Metta 19:44 onwards):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPaUawp_oUk

I found the talk quite straightforward – like - aren’t these the same insights all meditators get?

*

Excellent............
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  #58  
Old 21-04-2019, 03:28 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Excellent............
Tried this: “Guided Heart Meditation: Metta” at the bottom of the page, as I seem to need visualizations:
http://zenofwater.com/watercolor/?p=2822

*
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