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  #1  
Old 17-04-2012, 12:03 AM
QuantumKev QuantumKev is offline
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Human DNA - just elaborate computer code?

I have been fascinated by DNA ever since I first learned about it. From what I understand, there are 4 bases (or proteins), abbreviated as A, C, G and T. And though there are 4 different kinds, the pairing is limited such that A (adenine) bonds only to T (thymine), and C (cytosine) bonds only to G (guanine).

Now being a computer programmer as I am, it struck me that in essence, DNA is a binary language (please note that I am a programmer Jim, not a doctor! Lol) Hence, I could be wrong about this and oversimplifying far too much. Still, I don't think it is a far stretch to say that any programmer can look at the A-T C-G pairings and they way there are alllowed to combine, and see that there are striking similarities to many of the currently (or formerly used) programming languages.

So where am I going with all this... I guess where I am going is to say that as a programmer, as a spiritual person, as a skeptic and as a curious human being, it seems to me that there is just no way - NO way - the "language" of DNA, and all its complexities, could have arisen simply by 'chance', through the workings of evolution and chaos. In my mind, there had to be - just had to be - some sort of intelligence behind it.

To say there isn't is akin to saying that if no human being ever set out to write the code that created - well, say even this website for example - that it would have just "spontaneously arisen" after billions of years of chance happenings and mutations. And considering how inordinately more complex DNA is than even the most complex website or software, I guess I just don't see how anyone - especially those with a programming background like myself - can think that there isn't some form of intellingence behind that which we know as "life".

I am curious to hear what others think about all this. And as always, Many Blessings : )

QuanKev
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  #2  
Old 17-04-2012, 12:24 AM
Kepler
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
Now being a computer programmer as I am, it struck me that in essence, DNA is a binary language (please note that I am a programmer Jim, not a doctor! Lol) Hence, I could be wrong about this and oversimplifying far too much. Still, I don't think it is a far stretch to say that any programmer can look at the A-T C-G pairings and they way there are alllowed to combine, and see that there are striking similarities to many of the currently (or formerly used) programming languages.
What similarities? You can arrange the A,C,G, and T's in different ways to encode different messages. Is this what you mean? You must be using a really low level programming language if you're still programming bit by bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
So where am I going with all this... I guess where I am going is to say that as a programmer, as a spiritual person, as a skeptic and as a curious human being, it seems to me that there is just no way - NO way - the "language" of DNA, and all its complexities, could have arisen simply by 'chance', through the workings of evolution and chaos. In my mind, there had to be - just had to be - some sort of intelligence behind it.
No one is claiming DNA arose by "chance". See natural selection.


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
To say there isn't is akin to saying that if no human being ever set out to write the code that created - well, say even this website for example - that it would have just "spontaneously arisen" after billions of years of chance happenings and mutations. And considering how inordinately more complex DNA is than even the most complex website or software, I guess I just don't see how anyone - especially those with a programming background like myself - can think that there isn't some form of intellingence behind that which we know as "life".
This is false analogy. Computer languages do not reproduce. They do not have offspring to pass along information to. There are no external pressures to shape the evolution of computer languages.
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  #3  
Old 17-04-2012, 12:55 AM
Mind's Eye
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
I have been fascinated by DNA ever since I first learned about it. From what I understand, there are 4 bases (or proteins), abbreviated as A, C, G and T. And though there are 4 different kinds, the pairing is limited such that A (adenine) bonds only to T (thymine), and C (cytosine) bonds only to G (guanine).

Now being a computer programmer as I am, it struck me that in essence, DNA is a binary language (please note that I am a programmer Jim, not a doctor! Lol) Hence, I could be wrong about this and oversimplifying far too much. Still, I don't think it is a far stretch to say that any programmer can look at the A-T C-G pairings and they way there are alllowed to combine, and see that there are striking similarities to many of the currently (or formerly used) programming languages.

So where am I going with all this... I guess where I am going is to say that as a programmer, as a spiritual person, as a skeptic and as a curious human being, it seems to me that there is just no way - NO way - the "language" of DNA, and all its complexities, could have arisen simply by 'chance', through the workings of evolution and chaos. In my mind, there had to be - just had to be - some sort of intelligence behind it.

To say there isn't is akin to saying that if no human being ever set out to write the code that created - well, say even this website for example - that it would have just "spontaneously arisen" after billions of years of chance happenings and mutations. And considering how inordinately more complex DNA is than even the most complex website or software, I guess I just don't see how anyone - especially those with a programming background like myself - can think that there isn't some form of intellingence behind that which we know as "life".

I am curious to hear what others think about all this. And as always, Many Blessings : )

QuanKev

What you are saying here is not far from what science is discovering. Scientists have found that the entire universe seems to be embedded with complex mathematical codes; hence they are beginning to say that life had to have been intelligently designed. There is so much complexity behind all this that is I were to to try and write it here, it would be far too long to read. But the findings go far beyond natural selection and evolution so greatly that even the evolutionists are seeking a new theory on how life and the universe came to be. But naturally, some will try to debunk these findings because they refuse to let go of their old ideologies.

Thanks for posting this; you are a very intelligent and perceptive individual.
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  #4  
Old 17-04-2012, 12:58 AM
Kepler
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind's Eye
What you are saying here is not far from what science is discovering. Scientists have found that the entire universe seems to be embedded with complex mathematical codes; hence they are beginning to say that life had to have been intelligently designed. There is so much complexity behind all this that is I were to to try and write it here, it would be far too long to read. But the findings go far beyond natural selection and evolution so greatly that even the evolutionists are seeking a new theory on how life and the universe came to be. But naturally, some will try to debunk these findings because they refuse to let go of their old ideologies.
A few relevant links would be nice.
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  #5  
Old 17-04-2012, 03:56 AM
QuantumKev QuantumKev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kepler
What similarities? You can arrange the A,C,G, and T's in different ways to encode different messages. Is this what you mean? You must be using a really low level programming language if you're still programming bit by bit.

Kepler - I am definitely not programming in a low level language : I am coding in C#, a true 3GL. But as anyone who does program understands, that C# code gets compiled into MSIL or CIL code, which gets encoded as 1's and 0's. That is all a CPU can really understand or process - binary code. No matter how advanced or powerful the language is, it is all translated into 1's and 0's ultimately.

I was just about to write out some lengthy explanation, but alas, I already did that on a website I had awhile back - enjoy...

"As a programmer, I find it fascinating how closely the logic behind the building blocks of the genetic code resemble the binary language understood by computers. Binary is a language with only two symbols - 1 and 0 - and long sequences of these two numbers interpreted by computers are responsible for everything you see and experience while surfing the web, building a spreadsheet, or playing a video game. Using only a 1 and a 0, it is possible to represent four different values: 00, 01, 10, and 00. It's evident that the components of the genetic code could be easily represented in binary using only two numbers, or "bits" as they are referred to in computing terminology. So, in theory, the information stored in DNA could be represented in a format that we now use to store and transmit other complex information. In that sense, DNA is a kind of biological, genetic program, hence the widely used "genetic code" terminology.

What I find so captivating about all of this is how similar DNA and it's components and functions (as related to humans) are to software and the computers that run it. If my computer is not able to edit photos, I can simply load some graphic editing software onto it, and I then have the capability to do what I wish to do. An article that can be reached by a link on thehiddencode homepage entitled "Genetic Upgrade" explains how scientists have discovered that a variation in a gene that arose almost 6000 years ago seems to have provided the human species with the capacity to increase brain size. Continuing with the allegory - homo sapiens wanted to increase their brain size, so a new gene was loaded into us, and now homo sapiens have the capability to do what they want to do. This is, of course, an oversimplified example, but the spirit of the idea is strikingly accurate. If it were not, scientists wouldn't even imagine gene therapy or similar treatments. The reader is invited to do some self study about the subject of DNA and find out for yourself how fascinating the genetic code really is.

Of course, this brings us to the crux of this matter - how did these genetic variations, specifically the ones that led to the higher cognitive abilities of our species - arise? Many evolutionists and other scientists argue that natural selection and other neatly explainable circumstances led to our unique abilities. While I believe there is some truth to this, I find it difficult to believe that the action of impartial forces such as evolution and natural selection would result in these abilities manifesting in only one of the billions of different species that have inhabited this planet since its appearance in the universe."

And yes, I may have made a false analogy. But I think the point I am trying to make is very clear. If you disagree, I honor and respect that - as I would hope you honor and respect mine. Just because one believes in something more, or that there is a good chance there was some purposeful design in all this does not automatically make that person less intelligent, as so many evolutionists and materialists believe. I am thinking and hoping that you are not one of them my friend : )

Many Blessings,

QuanKev

PS - I tried to post a link to the Science magazine article I referenced, but couldn't yet, so Google this and you might find it : 'ASPM, a Brain Size Determinant in Homo sapiens'
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  #6  
Old 17-04-2012, 04:02 AM
QuantumKev QuantumKev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind's Eye
What you are saying here is not far from what science is discovering. Scientists have found that the entire universe seems to be embedded with complex mathematical codes; hence they are beginning to say that life had to have been intelligently designed. There is so much complexity behind all this that is I were to to try and write it here, it would be far too long to read. But the findings go far beyond natural selection and evolution so greatly that even the evolutionists are seeking a new theory on how life and the universe came to be. But naturally, some will try to debunk these findings because they refuse to let go of their old ideologies.

Thanks for posting this; you are a very intelligent and perceptive individual.

Surely, you are too kind Mind's Eye. I thank and agree with you, and as soon as I can post actual links, will put some up myself. I have read much of Paul Davies, and he agrees with what we have proposed, as do many well-respected scientists. Even Einstein believed in some form of higher power or spirit :

"Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble." - A.E.


Many Blessings : )

QuanKev
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  #7  
Old 17-04-2012, 04:34 AM
Kepler
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
Kepler - I am definitely not programming in a low level language : I am coding in C#, a true 3GL. But as anyone who does program understands, that C# code gets compiled into MSIL or CIL code, which gets encoded as 1's and 0's. That is all a CPU can really understand or process - binary code. No matter how advanced or powerful the language is, it is all translated into 1's and 0's ultimately.
I know, it was a joke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
As a programmer, I find it fascinating how closely the logic behind the building blocks of the genetic code resemble the binary language understood by computers. Binary is a language with only two symbols - 1 and 0 - and long sequences of these two numbers interpreted by computers are responsible for everything you see and experience while surfing the web, building a spreadsheet, or playing a video game. Using only a 1 and a 0, it is possible to represent four different values: 00, 01, 10, and 00. It's evident that the components of the genetic code could be easily represented in binary using only two numbers, or "bits" as they are referred to in computing terminology. So, in theory, the information stored in DNA could be represented in a format that we now use to store and transmit other complex information. In that sense, DNA is a kind of biological, genetic program, hence the widely used "genetic code" terminology.
Why is this surprising? DNA contains information. Information can be stored in 0s and 1s. So... what? You could store the information using any other number system if you wanted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
What I find so captivating about all of this is how similar DNA and it's components and functions (as related to humans) are to software and the computers that run it. If my computer is not able to edit photos, I can simply load some graphic editing software onto it, and I then have the capability to do what I wish to do. An article that can be reached by a link on thehiddencode homepage entitled "Genetic Upgrade" explains how scientists have discovered that a variation in a gene that arose almost 6000 years ago seems to have provided the human species with the capacity to increase brain size. Continuing with the allegory - homo sapiens wanted to increase their brain size, so a new gene was loaded into us, and now homo sapiens have the capability to do what they want to do. This is, of course, an oversimplified example, but the spirit of the idea is strikingly accurate. If it were not, scientists wouldn't even imagine gene therapy or similar treatments. The reader is invited to do some self study about the subject of DNA and find out for yourself how fascinating the genetic code really is.
Careful with the analogy. "Homo sapiens wanted to increase their brain size" and "a new gene was loaded into us." Really? I'm sure you're just using these phrases to play along with your software analogy, but the wording here, if taken literally, is quite misleading.

An evolutionary biologist would probably phrase it more accurately this way:"Through some combination of genetic recombination and random mutation, genes arose that resulted in a larger brain size. This allowed for a greater intelligence and was obviously selected for favorably via natural selection." (I'm just speculating, because I don't know the details of this specific example you are discussing. However, what I have just said is a very plausible interpretation, at least in terms of evolutionary biology).


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
Of course, this brings us to the crux of this matter - how did these genetic variations, specifically the ones that led to the higher cognitive abilities of our species - arise? Many evolutionists and other scientists argue that natural selection and other neatly explainable circumstances led to our unique abilities. While I believe there is some truth to this, I find it difficult to believe that the action of impartial forces such as evolution and natural selection would result in these abilities manifesting in only one of the billions of different species that have inhabited this planet since its appearance in the universe.
If you simply find it difficult to "believe" this, I don't have much to say. If you want to actually put forth and argument as to why you believe this, then we can have a better discussion. Believe what you want, I don't mind. But if you'd like to discuss this further, you'll need to provide more substance than an argument from personal incredulity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
And yes, I may have made a false analogy. But I think the point I am trying to make is very clear.
Yeah, I get the point you are trying to make.


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
If you disagree, I honor and respect that - as I would hope you honor and respect mine.
I respect people's right to personal beliefs and opinions. However, if someone makes a faulty argument in support of that belief, I'm going to comment on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumKev
Just because one believes in something more, or that there is a good chance there was some purposeful design in all this does not automatically make that person less intelligent, as so many evolutionists and materialists believe.
Of course, I would never say anything so silly or insulting. I'm not here to personally judge anyone. I'm mainly interested in what people say (or type) - their ideas.

Thanks for the reply.
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  #8  
Old 17-04-2012, 07:11 AM
MaliMarie
Posts: n/a
 
Does anyone else want to watch The Matrix? lol.

I used to be in love with genetics but I always found it odd that the pairs never mingle. Every chemical can only bind with it's opposite, it's the sequence of pairs that changes things. DNA for every type of cell we have, and yet they all come from the same four chemicals. It's like God has a sense of humor lol, giving us mysteries to unravel and laughing at us when we hit dead ends in our research.
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  #9  
Old 17-04-2012, 07:21 AM
whoguy423 whoguy423 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 22
 
Hey I've coded in assembly... awesomely powerful... but damn finicky!

Umm... dna... simple bits of proteins... which over billions of years of mixing and matching... through evolution ( aka survival of the fittest ) ... has created life.

I am always amazed when a baby spider hatches out of it's egg sack and it is fully programmed on how to hunt, find/create shelter and reproduce without ever being taught a thing!!!!

DNA.... amazing stuff!!!
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  #10  
Old 17-04-2012, 12:57 PM
Mind's Eye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kepler
A few relevant links would be nice.

Hey, I've read this stuff in science magazines and books...lol... I have to admit, I'm lazy and not one to search for links etc to post. I figure the info is plentiful enough that folks can search it out on their own if they are interested.

Other than that I will leave it up to Kev to fetch those relevant links.

Peace
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