Saami People of Norway, Finland and Sweden and Joiking

[sentient]

Australian Aboriginals lose ‘colour’ really fast, so the colour of a person’s skin is no indication of that person’s indigenous identity claim.
https://new-cdn.mamamia.com.au/mamam...jpeg?width=656

Here the actress (playing "Mary") is half Finnish half Aboriginal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwzD...annel=ABCiview

But never in a million years did I think it possible that “whites” would fake being Australian Aborigines or of Aboriginal descend. That sort of thing could only happen in America I thought - but no, it is happening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLSI...yNewsAustralia

[sentient]

Came across this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWd8...annel=Decimali

Well, since Myheritage does not have Saami source population, Finns are the closest match for them and of course all Finns are Saami admixed, some only little, some much more.

But what I found very interesting was this comment by “barguttobed”:

Took from wikipedia
Since the term 'Ancient North Eurasian' refers to a genetic bridge of connected mating networks, scholars of comparative mythology have argued that they probably shared myths and beliefs that could be reconstructed via the comparison of stories attested within cultures that were not in contact for millennia and stretched from the Pontic–Caspian steppe to the American continent.

*

For instance, the mytheme of the dog guarding the Otherworld possibly stems from an older Ancient North Eurasian belief, as suggested by similar motifs found in Indo-European, Native American and Siberian mythology. In Siouan, Algonquian, Iroquoian, and in Central and South American beliefs, a fierce guard dog was located in the Milky Way, perceived as the path of souls in the afterlife, and getting past it was a test. The Siberian Chukchi and Tungus believed in a guardian-of-the-afterlife dog and a spirit dog that would absorb the dead man's soul and act as a guide in the afterlife. In Indo-European myths, the figure of the dog is embodied by Cerberus, Sarvarā, and Garmr. In Zoroastrianism, two four-eyed dogs guard the bridge to the afterlife called Chinvat Bridge. Anthony and Brown note that it might be one of the oldest mythemes recoverable through comparative mythology.

Which brings me to this picture about the Proto-Uralic-worldview, I had posted previously, where that dog is:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig8_271068683

Only the sketch above doesn’t give the sense, the hair-raising feeling of that kind of a situation happening.
This image depicts “getting past the test” better:
https://i.ibb.co/qDnRdSC/alembic-1.jpg

But to put it into the Forest Saami landscape (where through spontaneous ‘distance viewing’ I saw a vision of it) … There is this special deep ravine in that landscape and that ‘blackness’ (like in NDEs … blackness that is the transition stage from one state of awareness to the next), with a point of light at the end of the ravine (not tunnel like in NDEs). And both sides of the ravine are these “ferocious dogs”. They are like embedded into the ravine cliffs (as if dogs of stone, asleep) and if one doesn’t have any fear going through that blackness, they will stay that way and let one pass & then the Light dawns.
Not an NDE, not actual death, but a shamanic initiation where one goes through the same kind of motions …
So, I thought that ravine in the landscape had perhaps been used for that purpose, as a portal & had the war between Russia and Ukraine not started, I would have made an effort to go there and see that ravine irl.

But what are the Siouan, Algonquian, Iroquoian, and in Central and South American beliefs about it?
Never heard of those.

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by sentient

Not an NDE, not actual death, but a shamanic initiation where one goes through the same kind of motions …
But what are the Siouan, Algonquian, Iroquoian, and in Central and South American beliefs about it?

Well, it seems I don't really know much about the shamanic journey...Or do I ??
I do not know any shamanic practitioners in Life that has explained those things to me...
I do read some from people that claim to be shaman, though I can't make heads or tails if they are real shamanic practitioners or imagination travelers...
I get the sense that people talk on many different levels of dream,vision,subconscious burps,imagination,astral plain, other such dimensions...So it's all a bit confusing to me...
I guess time will tell...

I did try looking into the swan and the milky-way... I see that also in your jpeg..
I thought I read the swan was big medicine in the dying process and has something to do with a big lake in Siberia...

...Peace...

[sentient]

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

I did try looking into the swan and the milky-way... I see that also in your jpeg..
I thought I read the swan was big medicine in the dying process and has something to do with a big lake in Siberia...

Yeah, it is both in the Proto-Uralic and in the Saami world-view:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig8_271068683

But now let’s compare it to the Amerind “Mount Bulder’s” (?) view, where at least we can identify the “World Pole/Tree” and the “Thunderbirds” – but is that the “Dog” below???
https://i.ibb.co/d63xKv1/Native-Amer...-Pole-Tree.png

Actually ours should be depicted that way as well (and not like a European 'fairytale' picture), because this is a more correct view, although not entirely, since it doesn't have the Lower World in it.
But I guess the previous Proto-Uralic image just demonstrates also how - when other people interpret 'your' culture, they distort it:


I copied that Amerind "Mount Builders" picture from one of the Andrew Collins related videos – which are really lengthy, but for those interested they are riveting watching/listening.
Cygnus constellation of the Milky Way 34:46 > 48:38 (our Ural area):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCs4...galithomaniaUK

Swans - those go back to The Mal'ta - Buret' culture:
https://donsmaps.com/malta.html

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

I get the sense that people talk on many different levels of dream,vision,subconscious burps,imagination,astral plain, other such dimensions...So it's all a bit confusing to me...

They are. Even NDEs leave a lot of room for interpretation. At times for a Christian (subconscious baggage) person the ‘blackness’ (transition stage) represents “Hell” & its demons, what have you - and the subsequent dawning of the Light is seen as Christ coming to save one into “Heaven”, because one is Christian. Not realizing that almost everybody goes through the same scenario from blackness into Light.

And these OBEs, visions, dreams, spontaneous trance journeys only seem to give glues – so, they give as many answers as they raise questions.
Here I would caution people though – to explore one’s own subconscious (baggage) & not some other culture’s subconscious ‘heritage’. I am unlikely to see for example a “platapus” as a guardian symbol into some other worlds …. unless I had actually been initiated or something into the “Platapus Totemic Dreaming” … (whatever that now might be???)
But people do idolize other culture’s spiritual heritage, especially Amerind – which I guess is what a Buddhist teacher called “spiritual materialism” - that somehow, if we transplant some other people’s spirituality into our heads, we then become “spiritual” – not realizing we are that already – everybody is - no matter who we are, indigenous or non.

But of course, through Ancient North Eurasian ANE-dna (heritage baggage), we do get some overlap with Amerinds (if that map link shows):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancien...tension).p ng

[sentient]

From Kalevala, here the ‘shaman Väinämöinen’ is doing some ‘soul retrieval’, I assume - into the land of the dead.
The Swan is there and is that the “Black Dog” sitting on the bow of the boat in that River of the Lower World?

“Väinämöinen in Tuonela” by Joseph Alanen: