Did the Devil make them do it?

Originally Posted by Triner

AHH, you beat me to it!

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by HBuck72

Cheers!

Blackraven

I think Scibat described it well: The Devil is a cheerleader.

People are responsible for their actions, good or bad. Even those who are possessed had to allow the possession to take place. Environmental factors contribute, especially in the case of children who are still dependent on the protection of their parents. People who have yet to learn to think for themselves are more likely to be influenced by external factors, I would imagine.

I come from a Christian background, but I do not believe in using the Devil as a scapegoat. People do not grow if they cannot take responsibility for their misdeeds. Just as importantly, people cannot grow if they do not forgive themselves and strive to learn from their mistakes. (Again, the first step toward that is taking responsibility.)

Well y'all took the words right out of my mouth ditto on most all the OP...

nightowl

Originally Posted by blackraven

Devil is a rebellious demon that tempts humans to commit evil deeds.

Hitler hated Jewish persons because they were the largest non-German ethnic minority in Central Europe and were regarded as parasites. He killed 1.5 Million people over 5 years. Was hitler a puppet of the Devil? That's as pure evil as evil can get.

My question is, do you believe the Devil is on Earth personally tempting humans such as Hitler, Charles Manson, or Jack the Ripper to commit such acts horror?

Or are humans born with a seed of evil in them and thus can go either way? Does society have more influence on the output of a human's development than religion?

What are your thoughts on the cause of the most evil acts committed by humans?

Blackraven

Greetings blackraven,

Before I speak I want to let you know that Jesus Christ addresses your questions quite succinctly and to the point in Scripture.

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." -- II TIMOTHY 3:1-5 (KJV)

Behold His Words and Warning! Being omniscient, Jesus knew and He knows now! All those things He listed have come to pass and continue to especially in these last days! So, yes, there can be no doubt that the demons of temptation and horrible acts can instill all of these thoughts in people and can do even more. While I feel that humans have an inherent element of retaliation, to commit such grievous acts such as those of Hitler and others, have to have the promptings of those from the demonic hierarchy as it is simply quite unnatural for man to become that evil in and by himself. As to society and their input, there can be no doubt also that demons play an important role in shaping up human development due to mass consciousness and the ever pervasive evil it contains, acquired through various forms and means, which is transferred to the minds of many and which then carries over unto others.

These are indeed very dangerous times and one must beware for the adversary is ever present and ready to grab every person who is weak in will and eager for a different experience. But the devil's greatest trick in his book of lies is to instill in men that he does not exist. Those who fall prey to that lie and embrace it as their belief fall prey to greater evil afterward. That is why we must be on guard 24/7. After all, the devil is a great opportunist! He relishes the thought that those whom God has created have committed sin, which he takes full credit for. And he's just waiting for the right opportunity to come forth and snatch up a perfectly good soul that belongs to God during a person's moment of weakness. But We Are God's Property! And we must remind him always of that Fact and make him flee!

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." -- II JOHN 1:7 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by blackraven

My question is, do you believe the Devil is on Earth personally tempting humans such as Hitler, Charles Manson, or Jack the Ripper to commit such acts horror?
Or are humans born with a seed of evil in them and thus can go either way? Does society have more influence on the output of a human's development than religion?
What are your thoughts on the cause of the most evil acts committed by humans?

They all had different reasons to do what they did. Racist ideas, religious indoctrination, poor childhood, damaged brains. There are many reasons why people do the things they do. Sometimes we justify their actions, other times we don't.

The idea of 'evil' comes from our idea of some kind of 'perfection'.. this may be a god, saint, saviour, ethical code, or a belief in a higher purpose or world. Everything that is not part of this 'perfection' is automatically seen as 'evil' or 'absence of good, love, or righteousness'. We come up with evil creatures, devils, conspiracies and more to explain why others are not behaving as good as we do, the 'common people', the 'poor people', the 'children of god' and what have you.

Our ideas of 'perfection' are an illusion. Humans do horrible things and wonderful things. In the end, we judge this according to our ethical codes we have grown accustomed to through culture, religion, upbringing etc. And I think that's okay. But it's good to look at each context separately.

Originally Posted by AngelBreeze

[color="Indigo"][b] ... Before I speak I want to let you know that Jesus Christ addresses your questions quite succinctly and to the point in Scripture.

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." -- II TIMOTHY 3:1-5 (KJV)

Just to be clear the above quote is not from Jesus Christ. II Timothy is supposedly one of Paul's letters, and does not contain any first hand quotes from Jesus (Paul lived after Jesus, and never personally met Jesus, unless the mystical encounters are to be believed).

Also, there are good arguments to be made that II Timothy is not even a legit letter from Paul. Some of them are contained here: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2timothy.html

I'm not attacking you, it is just one of my pet peeves when people quote something out of the New Testament as being a quote from Jesus, when it most certainly is not.

Originally Posted by HBuck72

Just to be clear the above quote is not from Jesus Christ. II Timothy is supposedly one of Paul's letters, and does not contain any first hand quotes from Jesus (Paul lived after Jesus, and never personally met Jesus, unless the mystical encounters are to be believed).

Also, there are good arguments to be made that II Timothy is not even a legit letter from Paul. Some of them are contained here: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2timothy.html

I'm not attacking you, it is just one of my pet peeves when people quote something out of the New Testament as being a quote from Jesus, when it most certainly is not.

To be completely clear, the Scripture given is the ultimate word of God thus, Jesus Christ. The Scripture makes reference to all who are living in Him, Jesus Christ, shall be caused to suffer persecution.

In that same section:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." -- II TIMOTHY 3:16-17 (KJV)

Therefore, this is the word of God and Jesus Christ is One in the Holy Trinity, therefore God, and say what you will, the Scripture used is absolutely correct.

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." -- II JOHN 1:7 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

Originally Posted by AngelBreeze

To be completely clear, the Scripture given is the ultimate word of God thus, Jesus Christ. The Scripture makes reference to all who are living in Him, Jesus Christ, shall be caused to suffer persecution.

In that same section:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." -- II TIMOTHY 3:16-17 (KJV)

Therefore, this is the word of God and Jesus Christ is One in the Holy Trinity, therefore God, and say what you will, the Scripture used is absolutely correct.

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." -- II JOHN 1:7 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

If "Paul" wrote something, even if under the influence of the holy spirit, does not mean that Jesus Christ stated it. Jesus' words are the red letters, they actually came from the mouth of Jesus while on earth, the rest of the N.T. is basically the early church leaders interpretation on what the message of Jesus was.

To say that "Jesus" stated it leads to confusion and gives unnecessary weight to a scripture. I guess saying "according to Jesus" sounds better than, "according to Paul", or even "According to Paul via the holy spirit".

To say that everything in the N.T. is from Jesus is illogical. To believe that line of thinking would be like saying any proclamation ever made by the U.S. government is a quote from Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, et al., because they wrote the Constitution that set up the system.

Paul (even if if speaking through the holy spirt) does not equal Jesus. If Jesus perseonally made the statement then it is a quote, if not then it is not a quote. Period.

Also the scriptures that say that all scripture comes from God is not only self-serving (because who are you to question otherwise), but utterly false. Anyone who has studied the early church history and especially the politics involved in creating the official Christian "Bible" will realize that not everything in the Bible can be divinly inspired (unless the heavy editing was also divinly inspired).

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because I am sure you will keep saying that everything in the N.T. is a quote from Jesus, and I will keep saying, no that was Paul (maybe), etc.

Originally Posted by HBuck72

Also the scriptures that say that all scripture comes from God is not only self-serving (because who are you to question otherwise), but utterly false. Anyone who has studied the early church history and especially the politics involved in creating the official Christian "Bible" will realize that not everything in the Bible can be divinly inspired (unless the heavy editing was also divinly inspired).

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because I am sure you will keep saying that everything in the N.T. is a quote from Jesus, and I will keep saying, no that was Paul (maybe), etc.

Yes, HBuck72, we will certainly have to agree to disagree I can certainly see that.

Your assertion "Also the scriptures that say that all scripture comes from God is not only self-serving (because who are you to question otherwise), but utterly false." is also incorrect according to the Holy Bible. Again, I quote you the Scripture that most certainly states that "ALL SCRIPTURE (emphasis mine) is given by inspiration of God, .... " therefore, I have to disagree with what you are saying.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." -- II TIMOTHY 3:16-17 (KJV)

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." -- II JOHN 1:7 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)