Veganism & Karma

[Freekre8]

I think perhaps it nothing we do really can make our life any better or worse,
in my eyes, duality makes sure of that.

But what if I'm wrong what if it's possible to live a life with a disproportionate pleasure to pain ratio I can't take that chance and that's why I believe in eating ethically :)

As for all the bad things that have already happened lets put our differences aside and go back in time and change everything, if we work together anything is possible

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Freekre8

I believe in eating ethically :)

Here's how karma works, in this case: if the person is asleep, then eating unethically as you describe it would not result in karmic debt. They're asleep, they don't know any better. "They know not what they do." But once I've come to a soul understanding of this particular truth -- ethical diet -- then it becomes my karmic responsibility to do the right thing. Failure to do the right thing, once one has been awakened, would create karmic blow back.

That said, what most understand as karma is not what it is. It is not a punishment philosophy. It is a cause and effect reality and free will soul-exploration. We are not karmically bound; we have free will always. Ultimately it is the soul that decides which karmic contracts it needs to fulfill, for its own evolution, and for spirit evolution in general.

[Freekre8]

Originally Posted by Baile

Here's how karma works, in this case: if the person is asleep, then eating unethically as you describe it would not result in karmic debt. They're asleep, they don't know any better. "They know not what they do."

I'm not sure if being aware of something or not makes you immune to its effects tho, actually, I am very sure that is not the case!

Although I would perhaps agree that being aware of something sure as hell does magnify its effects (for better or for worse)

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Freekre8

I'm not sure if being aware of something or not makes you immune to its effects tho, actually, I am very sure that is not the case!

I was trying to point out that karma is not something outside of us, some external force that judges and punishes us for our misdeeds. This is the typical understanding of karma; it's a new-age mix of eastern philosophy, and western-Christian God-and-punishment beliefs. Rather, karma is a soul impetus. It is the moral voice within the soul itself. It is the soul calling to itself, announcing its desire and intention to embrace its self-determined karmic responsibilities, so as to both evolve the soul and help evolve creation.

First and foremost, the commercial livestock industry -- the torture and killing of animals, and the polluting and harming of the planet, all for the purpose of providing meat products for the masses -- is unethical. We understand that. And more and more people are waking up to this reality. And once they have woken up to it, it becomes an ethical issue for them. And it becomes a choice: Do they continue to support this unethical industry, and continue to eat meat? Or do they, say, switch to a vegetarian diet?

The individual who continues to support the unethical livestock industry, after having woken up in their understanding, is creating a karmic impediment in their soul life. The soul knows its moral responsibility. The human being on the other hand will often avoid taking moral responsibility when called to do so, for any number of reasons. This then creates a disruption in the soul life; what I called a karmic impediment. And at some point, either in this life time or in another, the soul will have to examine and look at that impediment; will need to explore why it chose to avoid taking moral responsibility. The soul then determines whatever steps it deems necessary to clear that karmic blockage. This self-examination process usually takes place in the spirit realm -- purgatory in religious language; kama loka in occult terminology -- between incarnations.

None of the above applies to an individual who has yet to awaken in their soul life; in this case regarding the unethical aspects of the commercial livestock industry. Consider the Hermetic adage, "As above, so below." The realities concerning spiritual laws are reflected in our human laws and activities. Someone who breaks the law, and specifically when accidental, is quite often let off with just a warning. Likewise the soul is innocent until it has woken up to a particular reality and truth, after which it becomes aware of and karmically responsible for its actions.

Here's a easy-to-understand example of that: An individual lives on his own, away from society. He creates his own laws given there is no one around to tell him otherwise. He hunts animals for food. And he does this for years. But then one day he is seen by someone who approaches the hunter and tells him he is trespassing. And he is asked to stop hunting on that property. Until the moment the landowner approached the hunter, he remained innocent and unaware. But now he knows. Now he has a karmic responsibility and choice: hunt elsewhere, or hunt illegally on that person's property. The karmic consequences will be determined by his choice.

I chose this story BTW to make another point: hunting and consuming animals for food is not karmically wrong; not in this story as outlined, anyway. The hunter is entirely free of karmic responsibility up until he is approached. It is only after he is approached that he now has a karmic responsibility and duty. He is now awake and aware, and as such has a karmic responsibility having to do with the question of trespassing on someone's property. And here's another thing: If he chooses to continue to hunt while trespassing, he is creating a karmic impediment having to do with hunting animals; hunting animals on a property on which he is trespassing. In other words, his hunting animals is no longer an innocent, karma-free activity.

[Freekre8]

The way I see karma is more like some kinda ironic force of nature?
(every action has reaction, maybe even equal/opposite)

Anyways my point really was I don't think any of it matters but what if it does!
and "if" it did matter, I can't think of anything that would matter more :/