Kundalini and Christianity

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by Aknaton

Indeed. And it is quite surprising how they by pass Jesus and still follow they're own understanding and even that of another human being. We know how human beings can be.

SpiritualMe said some interesting stuff i just thought its going a bit too far maybe, i dont know, i can't go down that gnostic road beyond a certain point

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ianalexanderr

Yes, Jehova was an angel. The title was "the angel of the Lord" - he often equated himself with God and accepted worship. This is because he was the First born angel of God - the blessing being, that he had the authority to act and speak on God's behalf and even act as his own God. For every instance God was interacting with man, he was actually acting through his first born angel: "Angel of the Lord"
God moves and works through his First Born Son. However the Blessing was taken and Given to Jesus. He earned it with his death. The Angel of the lord in this demotion has become the Holy Spirit.

Jehovah (Yahweh) never was an angel. The first usage of the expression "angel of the Lord" is at Genesis 16:7 which reads"
"And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in
the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur."
In Hebrew, the Hebrew word for Lord used in this scripture is:

יְהוָ֛ה
which is transliterated as Yahweh or Jehovah.
In Exodus 6:3 from the King James Bible reads:
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the
name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."
In Hebrew, The Hebrew word for JEHOVAH as used in this scripture is:

יְהוָ֔ה

which is also transliterated as Yahweh or Jehovah.

So is/was Jehovah/Yahweh an angel or is it the name of Almighty God?
I think I answered the question.

[NoOne]

The problem with Christianity is that it is an incredibly confused religion. It has been patched together from bits and pieces of other religions and even the church fathers often don't understand how they fit together.

I personally think that Kundalini and Christianity are like oil and water, they just don't mesh together very well. However, if I had to put the experience of Kundalini awakening in a Christian context, it would go something like this:

In the concept of the Holy Trinity, we have the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Notice anything missing? Yep, the mother, the Goddess so to speak. You obviously can't have a Son and a Father, without a mother. This used to be in the Bible, the Goddess was known as the Queen of Heaven and was symbolised by a Dove. Eventually this morphed into the Holy Spirit. You can actually trace back the origins of the Queen of Heaven to Inanna-Ishtar, who was the primary pre-Christian Goddess of the Middle East and was usually depicted as half-human, half-dove.

This Goddess Energy is what is referred to as Kundalini Shakti in the East. The divine feminine is upward-flowing, the divine masculine, the Grace of God, is downward-flowing. When the two meet, One-ness, or non-Duality is achieved in the experience known as enlightenment. Those, in whom enlightenment is a permanent condition are depicted as permanently shining or with a halo around their head, otherwise known as saints, boddhisattvas, tirthankaras, etc...

That is the gist of it, but it is complicated by the fact, that in Christianity a deliberate effort was made to erase, even demonise the divine feminine part of the trinity. As a non-Christian, I'm not bothered by it, but anyone with a significant emotional investment in Christianity as it currently is, will have a tough time with it.

[sky]

Originally Posted by NoOne

The problem with Christianity is that it is an incredibly confused religion. It has been patched together from bits and pieces of other religions and even the church fathers often don't understand how they fit together.

I personally think that Kundalini and Christianity are like oil and water, they just don't mesh together very well. However, if I had to put the experience of Kundalini awakening in a Christian context, it would go something like this:

In the concept of the Holy Trinity, we have the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Notice anything missing? Yep, the mother, the Goddess so to speak. You obviously can't have a Son and a Father, without a mother. This used to be in the Bible, the Goddess was known as the Queen of Heaven and was symbolised by a Dove. Eventually this morphed into the Holy Spirit. You can actually trace back the origins of the Queen of Heaven to Inanna-Ishtar, who was the primary pre-Christian Goddess of the Middle East and was usually depicted as half-human, half-dove.

This Goddess Energy is what is referred to as Kundalini Shakti in the East. The divine feminine is upward-flowing, the divine masculine, the Grace of God, is downward-flowing. When the two meet, One-ness, or non-Duality is achieved in the experience known as enlightenment. Those, in whom enlightenment is a permanent condition are depicted as permanently shining or with a halo around their head, otherwise known as saints, boddhisattvas, tintharkaras, etc...

That is the gist of it, but it is complicated by the fact, that in Christianity a deliberate effort was made to erase, even demonise the divine feminine part of the trinity. As a non-Christian, I'm not bothered by it, but anyone with a significant emotional investment in Christianity as it currently is, will have a tough time with it.

Roman Catholics pray to the ' Queen of Heaven ' but do not see Her as part of the Trinity. She is revered as the Mother of God....

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by sky123

Roman Catholics pray to the ' Queen of Heaven ' but do not see Her as part of the Trinity. She is revered as the Mother of God....

Yes, indeed. Hence the confusion I was talking about. This is a remnant of the widespread "Mother of God" cults of ancient times which centred around various pagan goddesses, Isis and Ishtar chiefly. The point is, she was clearly part of the trinity at some point, but was removed from that position.

You have to consider the Hindu concept of Shakti, the female, universal creative power of God to understand how that fits together. I think it is fairly obvious that Shakti and the Holy Spirit are essentially the same. There is a more esoteric, personalised concept of the Holy Spirit as the Goddess in Judaism, known as the Shekinah. These all have the same roots, but the connections between them have been lost over the centuries and need to be rediscovered.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by NoOne

Yes, indeed. Hence the confusion I was talking about. This is a remnant of the widespread "Mother of God" cults of ancient times which centred around various pagan goddesses, Isis and Ishtar chiefly. The point is, she was clearly part of the trinity at some point, but was removed from that position.

You have to consider the Hindu concept of Shakti, the female, universal creative power of God to understand how that fits together. I think it is fairly obvious that Shakti and the Holy Spirit are essentially the same. There is a more esoteric, personalised concept of the Holy Spirit as the Goddess in Judaism, known as the Shekinah. These all have the same roots, but the connections between them have been lost over the centuries and need to be rediscovered.

you can simplify this further. it's just bringing the male and female sides of God back together for a whole understanding of God. I don't think there's much wrong with seeing God as male or female on a personal level if your aware God can be seen as either by others, or both or neither.
Actually viewing the male and female as different Gods... that's another belief system which would see multiple deities as existing.
From a historical perspective it might look like the various cults were promoting different Gods, take Judaism - Yahweh vs Asherah. But these were just emphasising aspects of the one God and giving them their own identities and names. I'm not sure it makes sense now (polytheists may disagree!) to think of these as different Gods if they never were
I'm not saying all the various cults and so on of ancient were all correct or right about everything any more than that is true today
The feminine in Judaism is very strong if you know where to look for it, once you start looking for it, it's easy to see it everywhere as strong as the masculine is.
There is a tendency to place all the unpleasant things of religion onto the masculine and hide all the good things in the lost feminine. Maybe there's some truth in this but I think it's the whole understanding of God that's really lost which includes both equally

[sky]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

you can simplify this further. it's just bringing the male and female sides of God back together for a whole understanding of God. I don't think there's much wrong with seeing God as male or female on a personal level if your aware God can be seen as either by others, or both or neither.
Actually viewing the male and female as different Gods... that's another belief system which would see multiple deities as existing.
From a historical perspective it might look like the various cults were promoting different Gods, take Judaism - Yahweh vs Asherah. But these were just emphasising aspects of the one God and giving them their own identities and names. I'm not sure it makes sense now (polytheists may disagree!) to think of these as different Gods if they never were
I'm not saying all the various cults and so on of ancient were all correct or right about everything any more than that is true today
The feminine in Judaism is very strong if you know where to look for it, once you start looking for it, it's easy to see it everywhere as strong as the masculine is.
There is a tendency to place all the unpleasant things of religion onto the masculine and hide all the good things in the lost feminine. Maybe there's some truth in this but I think it's the whole understanding of God that's really lost which includes both equally

' you can simplify this further. it's just bringing the male and female sides of God back together '


I can simplify it even further, don't separate what's whole, spirit has no gender

[django]

Originally Posted by NoOne

The problem with Christianity is that it is an incredibly confused religion. It has been patched together from bits and pieces of other religions and even the church fathers often don't understand how they fit together.

I personally think that Kundalini and Christianity are like oil and water, they just don't mesh together very well. However, if I had to put the experience of Kundalini awakening in a Christian context, it would go something like this:

In the concept of the Holy Trinity, we have the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Notice anything missing? Yep, the mother, the Goddess so to speak. You obviously can't have a Son and a Father, without a mother. This used to be in the Bible, the Goddess was known as the Queen of Heaven and was symbolised by a Dove. Eventually this morphed into the Holy Spirit. You can actually trace back the origins of the Queen of Heaven to Inanna-Ishtar, who was the primary pre-Christian Goddess of the Middle East and was usually depicted as half-human, half-dove.

This Goddess Energy is what is referred to as Kundalini Shakti in the East. The divine feminine is upward-flowing, the divine masculine, the Grace of God, is downward-flowing. When the two meet, One-ness, or non-Duality is achieved in the experience known as enlightenment. Those, in whom enlightenment is a permanent condition are depicted as permanently shining or with a halo around their head, otherwise known as saints, boddhisattvas, tintharkaras, etc...

That is the gist of it, but it is complicated by the fact, that in Christianity a deliberate effort was made to erase, even demonise the divine feminine part of the trinity. As a non-Christian, I'm not bothered by it, but anyone with a significant emotional investment in Christianity as it currently is, will have a tough time with it.

I agree that the female aspect is largely missing in traditional Christianity, but I find it plausible that the Holy Spirit, perceived as a dove, is in fact the female element.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

Jesus wasn't saying the God of the Jews was false, but the understanding of God was false. So it's not right to literally say the God of the Jews was false, nor is it right to think of God the way Jesus opposed in the name of Christ
As to Kundalini, unfortunate choice of name. There is a spirit which isn't of God - some choose it over the true one. When they follow the false one, then evil is the result. Its the same problem Jesus was trying to address

I agree, Jesus came to reveal the true nature of the Father, to make Him fully known to all people... Jesus was on Earth the visible expression of the invisible Father, knowing Christ, we know the Father.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by sky123

' you can simplify this further. it's just bringing the male and female sides of God back together '


I can simplify it even further, don't separate what's whole, spirit has no gender

there's simplifying and over simplifying :)
I think spirit is genderless and also does have gender, sounds impossible right? Can the source of gender not have gender? But then being both genders is the same as being genderless. it is hard to tell the difference whether God is genderless or both, what is the difference?
in quantum mechanics things work like that seemingly impossible

I have studied non-duality and in the end its obvious we live in a dualistic universe. but dualism ends up separating and splitting God in two destroying the unity of God. so somehow both non-duality and duality are true at the same time. I know people introduce separation of space/time/materiality/sin to explain this but the bigger picture has to encompass the whole as well

This God is very strange to our understanding I think
Scripture tends to present an easy to understand Almighty but that's only superficial, all the mystic and philosophical traditions know there is more to it than that. even in scripture God is not really easy to understand so this is pretty inescapable.
But to be complete God also has to be easy to understand as well as impossible what a complete mystery it is





well this is the point I reached after being unable to make sense of duality of good and evi