Beauty in darkness

..............

Originally Posted by running

i think to make any sense of this debate its good to look beyond the third eye. beyond the third eye is simply bliss and silence. irrespective of whatever ideas may float and lights or no lights seen. which is why everything dissolves into it.

To make sense of this debate then Spirituality should be left out of it, the debate of Light vs dark was never a Spiritual debate in the first place bit one of what's been deeply ingrained into the human psyche. Starman was referring to the Jungian collective unconsciousness and this in part id what both light and dark are - they are avatars of the collective unconscious or recurring themes.

It actually began when apes jumped out of the trees. Their squinty little eyes hadn't evolved to being able to see in the dark or have a wider field of view in the way most of the prey species have, and soon Hominids became easy meat for lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Light was good because Hominids could see predators more easily, dark was bad because they couldn't. Perhaps if nature hadn't given Hominids such a voracious sex drive and designed the brain to release those happy hormones we would have become extinct before we discovered fire.

Today Spirituality defines hate, envy, greed, sadness... as dark/negative because that's a scary place for people to be, and the light/positive gives people a warm and fuzzy feeling. Just as nature designed the survival mechanism to be, just the same as people get a warm and fuzzy feeling from thinking they're more Spiritual.

Thing is Running, when you go past where you're heading and you become pure consciousness and nothing more, it's dark because there is nothing external to be conscious or aware of. And yeah, you can do the 'we are the light' bit but you can't see your own light without something to reflect back at you. Consciousness has no colour, and the Light means colour and a bad metaphor.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by ketzer

I often feel like I find great beauty and meaning in the darker and sad side of the life experience.

Sad music, sad or tragic stories (fiction, nonfiction, history), dark poetry, dark art, and other sad/dark things I can't think of at the moment. Of course, it is not just dark things, I appreciate the happier joyful side of art, history, life, etc. just as much (I mean I am not goth ). But I am often drawn to those darker aspects of the human experience and they in some way make me feel good instead of sad.

I am also aware that many people are not, and would rather steer clear of the darker and sad side of life. Often they almost think something is wrong with those who appreciate those sad and dark moments.

I am curious as to how others on this forum line up. Do you find you derive beauty and meaning from the darker aspects of life and are often drawn in (maybe even comforted) by them, or do they just bring you down and would prefer to avoid them when that is possible?

Any reflections on why we are one way or the other?

I think it's the ability to see through things and how you look at things. I am the same way. If you have the ability see the light in the so called "darkness" I feel you have an advantage, one can truly see the whole picture. And not be distracted buy the "light"

[running]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

To make sense of this debate then Spirituality should be left out of it, the debate of Light vs dark was never a Spiritual debate in the first place bit one of what's been deeply ingrained into the human psyche. Starman was referring to the Jungian collective unconsciousness and this in part id what both light and dark are - they are avatars of the collective unconscious or recurring themes.

It actually began when apes jumped out of the trees. Their squinty little eyes hadn't evolved to being able to see in the dark or have a wider field of view in the way most of the prey species have, and soon Hominids became easy meat for lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Light was good because Hominids could see predators more easily, dark was bad because they couldn't. Perhaps if nature hadn't given Hominids such a voracious sex drive and designed the brain to release those happy hormones we would have become extinct before we discovered fire.

Today Spirituality defines hate, envy, greed, sadness... as dark/negative because that's a scary place for people to be, and the light/positive gives people a warm and fuzzy feeling. Just as nature designed the survival mechanism to be, just the same as people get a warm and fuzzy feeling from thinking they're more Spiritual.

Thing is Running, when you go past where you're heading and you become pure consciousness and nothing more, it's dark because there is nothing external to be conscious or aware of. And yeah, you can do the 'we are the light' bit but you can't see your own light without something to reflect back at you. Consciousness has no colour, and the Light means colour and a bad metaphor.

rather than debate. beyond the mind is bliss and silence. does bliss and silence have any prefernces? no. beliefs? no. is there an idenity to have any such. no. so the question becomes are we looking at the evidence?. or our ideas? the evidence clearly shows no preference. therefore its personal preference.

[running]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

To make sense of this debate then Spirituality should be left out of it, the debate of Light vs dark was never a Spiritual debate in the first place bit one of what's been deeply ingrained into the human psyche. Starman was referring to the Jungian collective unconsciousness and this in part id what both light and dark are - they are avatars of the collective unconscious or recurring themes.

It actually began when apes jumped out of the trees. Their squinty little eyes hadn't evolved to being able to see in the dark or have a wider field of view in the way most of the prey species have, and soon Hominids became easy meat for lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Light was good because Hominids could see predators more easily, dark was bad because they couldn't. Perhaps if nature hadn't given Hominids such a voracious sex drive and designed the brain to release those happy hormones we would have become extinct before we discovered fire.

Today Spirituality defines hate, envy, greed, sadness... as dark/negative because that's a scary place for people to be, and the light/positive gives people a warm and fuzzy feeling. Just as nature designed the survival mechanism to be, just the same as people get a warm and fuzzy feeling from thinking they're more Spiritual.

Thing is Running, when you go past where you're heading and you become pure consciousness and nothing more, it's dark because there is nothing external to be conscious or aware of. And yeah, you can do the 'we are the light' bit but you can't see your own light without something to reflect back at you. Consciousness has no colour, and the Light means colour and a bad metaphor.

continued reply. sorry. only got a minute here and a minute there sometimes.

so i wanted to add. i just wanted to say also you brought up a lot of good points. thank you for sharing!

Originally Posted by running

rather than debate. beyond the mind is bliss and silence. does bliss and silence have any prefernces? no. beliefs? no. is there an idenity to have any such. no. so the question becomes are we looking at the evidence?. or our ideas? the evidence clearly shows no preference. therefore its personal preference.

But there is something beyond bliss and silence, where you exist in a state of pure consciousness and nothing else. There is no state of being blissful or silent, there is nothing more than a state of being.

Originally Posted by running

continued reply. sorry. only got a minute here and a minute there sometimes.

so i wanted to add. i just wanted to say also you brought up a lot of good points. thank you for sharing!

Thank you. If we're going to transcend shouldn't we fully understand what we're transcending? If we don't it simply becomes delusion and denial.

[running]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

But there is something beyond bliss and silence, where you exist in a state of pure consciousness and nothing else. There is no state of being blissful or silent, there is nothing more than a state of being. Thank you. If we're going to transcend shouldn't we fully understand what we're transcending? If we don't it simply becomes delusion and denial.

you say there is something beyond bliss and silence? have you explored the exhaustion of bliss and silence over the years to transcend beyond that? if you have i would be interested in your experience of it. in my view bliss and silence is pure for the fact it is not of our mind or emotions.

the evidence shows not just from my personal experince but going back a long, long time. going from living in the mind and emotional body to becoming open to the phenomena of bliss and silence is a major transcedence. why? because that phenomena, consciousness itself completely changes the living experince of the individual. to an experience that does not rely on anything. causeless, effortless, and endless. joy and silence experince predominantly over the other senses irrespective of what is. thoughts, emotions, and circumstances. it can do so because it is not a creation of the mind or emotional body. one can only become open to it. thus people for thousands of years have spoken about it as consciousness.

Originally Posted by running

you say there is something beyond bliss and silence? have you explored the exhaustion of bliss and silence over the years to transcend beyond that? if you have i would be interested in your experience of it. in my view bliss and silence is pure for the fact it is not of our mind or emotions.

the evidence shows not just from my personal experince but going back a long, long time. going from living in the mind and emotional body to becoming open to the phenomena of bliss and silence is a major transcedence. why? because that phenomena, consciousness itself completely changes the living experince of the individual. to an experience that does not rely on anything. causeless, effortless, and endless. joy and silence experince predominantly over the other senses irrespective of what is. thoughts, emotions, and circumstances. it can do so because it is not a creation of the mind or emotional body. one can only become open to it. thus people for thousands of years have spoken about it as consciousness.

I've had a few experiences where my mind and consciousness have 'parted company', where my mind/body have just carried on doing what they've been doing and all I've been conscious of is being consciousness itself.There's no thought of "Oh look, I'm having a deeply Spiritual experience" or "This must be....." There was just consciousness where consciousness knew itself as consciousness, nothing more.


I actually have a mental health issue and in some ways having had to come up with coping strategies over the years has left me with certain 'blocks'. because essentially I have to keep a tight rein on what's happening in my head. In some ways that's been a benefit because now I can distinguish between an action of the mind itself and a 'real' Spiritual experience. I 'walk in two worlds' where there's a part of me that expereinces the 'human stuff' and there's another part that experiences a consciousness over and above that. I don't know if I'd call that bliss or not but I understand what you mean, and whichever perspective I have at the time is a choice. Sometimes the causal and the emotional have understandings - 'tools for the job'.

[running]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I've had a few experiences where my mind and consciousness have 'parted company', where my mind/body have just carried on doing what they've been doing and all I've been conscious of is being consciousness itself.There's no thought of "Oh look, I'm having a deeply Spiritual experience" or "This must be....." There was just consciousness where consciousness knew itself as consciousness, nothing more.


I actually have a mental health issue and in some ways having had to come up with coping strategies over the years has left me with certain 'blocks'. because essentially I have to keep a tight rein on what's happening in my head. In some ways that's been a benefit because now I can distinguish between an action of the mind itself and a 'real' Spiritual experience. I 'walk in two worlds' where there's a part of me that expereinces the 'human stuff' and there's another part that experiences a consciousness over and above that. I don't know if I'd call that bliss or not but I understand what you mean, and whichever perspective I have at the time is a choice. Sometimes the causal and the emotional have understandings - 'tools for the job'.

sounds like something to build on. there doesn't have to be bliss for it to be. most connect with a silence. i say bliss and silence because that describes both aspects of what can be experinced. and perhaps bliss comes along later. but silence is it. meditation, pranayama, and whatever else works are designed to build on that silence. open to it more abundantly. and no there is nothing spiritual in ideas about it. the real thing does not play preferences. its consciousness.

thank you for sharing!

[running]

continued. not that prefernces dont have value. but im sure you know what i mean anyways.