what is the proposed evidence that time is an illusion?

[itsjustaname]

I am curious (about the title: what is the proposed evidence that time is an illusion?) because as I probe the big questions like solipsistic skepticism, time seems to be flying by in the intuitive day to day sense.

I don't really want to waste the time of my life, but I also want to hold on to the fundamental truths that I can see most clearly.

I think sometimes solipsism seems like a dead end, but to turn your back on the truth seems dangerous, reckless, negligent, and at some point you worry about "reality biting back".

It is difficult again, because holding on to solipsism and other spiritual truths like Zen meditation, short circuits moving forward in other domains like education, economics, vocational development, even relationships and friendships, and socializing.

If the foundation of all these pursuits is unstable and precarious, then at any time the edifice can come crashing down.

I read an interesting point yesterday, that it is often the work of the philosopher to find the assumptions that are most axiomatic, most self-evident, most likely to be true and from which to build a system of philosophical wisdom. It seems like that is what my tangential point here is (after time travel and possible illusion of time).

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(Intuitive) time is passing by, but to advance everyday interests and "save time", would be to turn my back on fundamental philosophical truths like the problem of induction in science among other problems of epistemology, metaphysics, etc.

I've only heard of time travel and the illusion of time in a serious discussion in philosophy and/or physics academic departments, and science fiction popular media such as Back to the Future with Michael J. Fox.

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Thanks,

[SecretDreams333]

time is no illusion its a 3D reality , but just only that
if not in 3D its a different thing all together
time is an interaction between energies that result in 3D
interaction that creates time is you passing from other realities in 3D
as in energy forming solid matter you could say you are mixed in this
the energy that make up you , its the energy passing trough an object
that allow you to have a visual memory image of that object
this is a time signature you can hold on to as memory
but also part of time created for you and in a way by you
these image signatures can be shared between people
the originate from your consciousness around you
that lies beyond separation from all you are
time is you meeting you passing trough matter around you
from your not incarnated self in to your 3D self
things that can be explained in a few ways using typed words
maybe it makes sense anyways I like your frog lol :-)
reminds me of me typing here blablabla lol :-)

[itsjustaname]

so I think your reference to 3D and energy and solid matter, consciousness, passing through an object, memory

it sounds like you are suggesting there is a difference between matter and mind?

tangible and intangible?

that which is easier to sense and observe, and that which isn't?

but what about watching time on a clock?

can you clarify your point and if I interpreted semantically well?
thanks

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by itsjustaname

I am curious (about the title: what is the proposed evidence that time is an illusion?) because as I probe the big questions like solipsistic skepticism, time seems to be flying by in the intuitive day to day sense.

the thing about words is that words have meanings... the most conservative meaning of the word time once you get past everything you 'feel' about it is that time is simply a way to measure the changes in things.

But you can experience change in different ways... for example 'a watched pot never boils' but 'time flies when you are having fun'.

I don't really want to waste the time of my life, but I also want to hold on to the fundamental truths that I can see most clearly.


I think sometimes solipsism seems like a dead end, but to turn your back on the truth seems dangerous, reckless, negligent, and at some point you worry about "reality biting back".

the problem is it is incredibly easy to talk yourself into the idea you 'know' the truth, then support yourself into that by making observations that align with what you know and ignoring observations that don't, and never really know much of anything. People do it all the time. This is why people on the various paths placed value in understanding that you don't really know. In many spiritual areas, you can't proceed past the point where you decide you know things. But that has some not so obvious problems when you take it to extremes... any more I think moderation a good thing. As is a good sense of when it is time to just stop.

It is difficult again, because holding on to solipsism and other spiritual truths like Zen meditation, short circuits moving forward in other domains like education, economics, vocational development, even relationships and friendships, and socializing.

yes this is a very real problem, you have to choose which way to go, and you really only have a very general feel for what a secular approach will get you vs its cost, or what a more spiritual approach will get you vs its cost. So doing a cost/benefit analysis, up front, doesn't work so well. And the problem for me was, the secular approach is very appealing because you get more relationships, whereas the spiritual approach wasn't appealing because of my perception that noone is doing anything that was really viable. I ended up choosing spiritual anyway, or maybe it chose me, I dunno. But fortunately I get to come to these boards and socialize so it isn't a total wash

If the foundation of all these pursuits is unstable and precarious, then at any time the edifice can come crashing down.

that is very much a problem, the difference between building your house on the sand instead of on the rock. But, given time it is possible to learn the difference between 'sand' and 'rock' with something like trial and error. If your house gets washed away often enough you would hope you would learn to adapt and find a better place to put it. (Although I'm told some people are so stubborn they continue on the same path regardless of obvious problems)

I read an interesting point yesterday, that it is often the work of the philosopher to find the assumptions that are most axiomatic, most self-evident, most likely to be true and from which to build a system of philosophical wisdom. It seems like that is what my tangential point here is (after time travel and possible illusion of time).

After a while I discovered, that I can cover a topic with different sets of axioms. Starting with one set of axioms I can make one model that is very self contained and self evident.. starting with another set of axioms I can make another model also very self contained and self evident... but that makes a different set of conclusions more obvious. Neither of these needs to be particularly self-evident or obvious, but I find that if I choose one over the other I will get accustomed to it and start calling it so anyway. E.g. what is 'self-evident' isn't necessarily what is 'self-evident' for any reason other than that I am comfortable with thinking it is so. (for example if you know math you might consider the implications of using either cartesian coordinate system or polar coordinate system when the other is clearly called for. It will work but isn't so 'easy')

So a lot of what I 'see' depends on whose map I look at. Unfortunately, a lot of the maps are being made these days not so much to enlighten me as to the truth of things, but to entice me into 'buying' one point of view over another.

When looking at people, it is obvious that different people choose different axioms and thus build different models... this is more obvious when comparing two countries but can occur in lesser ways within a single country. In any 'objective' sense it shouldn't matter that people choose different ways of looking at things because it is all just arbitrary ways of drawing a map and it is the terrain that is really what matters anyway... but defense of one's favorite map seems to be the most obvious cause of strife between people.

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(Intuitive) time is passing by, but to advance everyday interests and "save time", would be to turn my back on fundamental philosophical truths like the problem of induction in science among other problems of epistemology, metaphysics, etc.

I've only heard of time travel and the illusion of time in a serious discussion in philosophy and/or physics academic departments, and science fiction popular media such as Back to the Future with Michael J. Fox.

heard of the merkaba yet? I don't know much about it but maybe you would like it.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by itsjustaname

I am curious (about the title: what is the proposed evidence that time is an illusion?)

Einstein's relativity shows the subjectivity of time, and there's a ton of experimental evidence that supports the theory.

because as I probe the big questions like solipsistic skepticism, time seems to be flying by in the intuitive day to day sense.

I don't really want to waste the time of my life,

I guess that's a matter of priorities.

but I also want to hold on to the fundamental truths that I can see most clearly.

Not possible.

I think sometimes solipsism seems like a dead end, but to turn your back on the truth seems dangerous, reckless, negligent, and at some point you worry about "reality biting back".

It is difficult again, because holding on to solipsism and other spiritual truths like Zen meditation, short circuits moving forward in other domains like education, economics, vocational development, even relationships and friendships, and socializing.

Sure, holding to anything is 'holding back', I would think.

If the foundation of all these pursuits is unstable and precarious, then at any time the edifice can come crashing down.

I would say that's inevitable.

I read an interesting point yesterday, that it is often the work of the philosopher to find the assumptions that are most axiomatic, most self-evident, most likely to be true and from which to build a system of philosophical wisdom. It seems like that is what my tangential point here is (after time travel and possible illusion of time).

Philosophy means the love of wisdom, but it has been largely swamped by intellectualism in the West and by religious overtones in the East. I suppose the philosophical question would necessarily be, how is wisdom cultivated?

------

(Intuitive) time is passing by, but to advance everyday interests and "save time", would be to turn my back on fundamental philosophical truths like the problem of induction in science among other problems of epistemology, metaphysics, etc.

I've only heard of time travel and the illusion of time in a serious discussion in philosophy and/or physics academic departments, and science fiction popular media such as Back to the Future with Michael J. Fox.

-------

Best time travel movie ever = Primer.

[RyanWind]

Time is a big topic but I will narrow it down to just a couple of ideas.

One is related to what Gem said about Einstein's relativity theory that shows the subjectivity of time. Personally, I have always thought that living things on earth live in their own relative time. One example is small birds. If you watch a sparrow for example, the head movements are so fast they are imperceptible to the human eye. So I would conclude sparrows are in different relative time than humans. We, or a cat, would appear to be moving in slower motion to a sparrow. I think this happens for survival purposes as sparrows would become extinct rather quickly if their relative speed was the same as humans and cats. Cats can kill them now with some skill but if sparrows moved slower, they would have no chance against any predator. Plants I think also exist is a different relative time. Starfish for sure. Anything you need time lapse filming techniques to capture moment could mean that thing is in a different relative time than us. Some humans age a lot quicker than others, I wonder if this could also be to slight differences in how fast time is moving between people.

The other idea I have relates to the " illusion of time" concept that opened this thread. To me, Buddhism or Zen are not really concerned with science, physics etc ideas or theories about time. When this idea is found in Buddhist philosophy, it is related to the idea of becoming. It's a hard thing to put into words, but it deals with psychological time. Zen deals with ideas and how many lead to delusion or a false reality. So the idea we can become or change through time is one concept we hold or carry. But then, also, the philosophy states we can only be in the present. So any effort to change, or be different, can only occur now. I can't do it tomorrow. Tomorrow comes and maybe I continue it... but I am still only doing it now.

One point in all of that is any idea pushing an effort out into conceptual time means I am believing on some level that whatever it is I am seeking, I am not looking for it now, I have a concept it will come to me though time. Thus, the invention of practices and methods etc which all conceptually place the attainment of whatever I am seeking out away from now. This means the now is not being spent in a perception of the actual present, whatever is there to be aware of, but the concept of an imagined future time is there, in now. A focusing on a conceptual thing or reality is what the now is, but then one is not aware of this as a concept, it is presented as an actual. It is where the attention is, in a conceptual reality.

I don't know if I explained it well as it is hard to put this stuff into words but that is where I see Buddhism's concept of time being an illusion coming from. It would probably be better to say, "psychological time is a delusion as it relates to a very specific Buddhist spiritual practice," instead of more generally, "time is an illusion." Time is real. We all can perceive it. The only illusion from a Zen view would be there is only now as far as where one finds a new way of being. There never is a tomorrow as far as when I practice more awareness. What I am seeking is always fully here.

[Dan_SF]

Time does not exist.

What you experience as time, is but only a distance between now and something that you want to happen.
Looking further into this, it is a distance, in which you allow things to happen.

The Past is gone, and is only in your memory.
The Future is, as well, in your memory, but only as an imagined (hoped or calculated) expectation. (usually related to the past experiences).

The only Time, that really exist, is the Now.

The mind was trained to think in Past and Future events, overlooking the Now completely.

But the mind cannot Grasp the Now, because this Now can only be Experienced, it cannot be thinked of.
And as long as you use the Mind or thoughts, you will merely get only explanations of what the Now is, which immediately becomes the past, as it were thought.

When you stop engaging in thought, you can experience now, and it will be miraculous (sometime).

[SecretDreams333]

Originally Posted by Dan_SF

Time does not exist.

What you experience as time, is but only a distance between now and something that you want to happen.
Looking further into this, it is a distance, in which you allow things to happen.

The Past is gone, and is only in your memory.
The Future is, as well, in your memory, but only as an imagined (hoped or calculated) expectation. (usually related to the past experiences).

The only Time, that really exist, is the Now.

The mind was trained to think in Past and Future events, overlooking the Now completely.

But the mind cannot Grasp the Now, because this Now can only be Experienced, it cannot be thinked of.
And as long as you use the Mind or thoughts, you will merely get only explanations of what the Now is, which immediately becomes the past, as it were thought.

When you stop engaging in thought, you can experience now, and it will be miraculous (sometime).

hi your posting makes no sense
the past is not gone all past events are stored
and can all be accessed , but you can be free from your own
past by having no energy connections with it anymore

the now is creation it self
its where time is created , creation is not as in the bible long ago
but a buzzing event in which energy interaction is formed in to solid matter and such and this also creates time as in 3D
and reflected light as in 3D and yes gravity too and temperature effects
the frequency of creation or speed is not with out use
for it allows us us to make change in creation itself
we are than creating direct result
creation is an interaction of energies
an interaction of sound and light you could say
but than what sound and light really are

the now moment is there cos you can pass it to what lies before it
an other level beyond 3D
the now moment is your internal mind talking to an creating
time you could say creating change that will be good or bad for you
if it concerns creation of your body
thoughts that create (are) mistakes that grow in to illnesses
or are than wrong thoughts , or a correction of the same hat can heal

but light can also heal but that an other story :-) a better one :-)

lol and tea is created by adding tea leaves to boiling water but usually done the other way around lol

[Ground]

Time is no illusion. Only inherent existing time is similar to an illusion. As long as there is a continuum of consciousness there is time. When the continuuum is interrupted but there is still life then there is atemporality. When the continuuum is eliminated at death, time ends.

[SecretDreams333]

Originally Posted by itsjustaname

so I think your reference to 3D and energy and solid matter, consciousness, passing through an object, memory

it sounds like you are suggesting there is a difference between matter and mind?

tangible and intangible?

that which is easier to sense and observe, and that which isn't?

but what about watching time on a clock?

can you clarify your point and if I interpreted semantically well?
thanks

mind is a thing that happens in real time in 3D the difference there between mind and matter are several things
all whats around is part of a shared consciousness sort of matrix structures that are shared , if you brake free of that fixed shared thing your 3th eye opens and you can move freely , the shared thing likes to keep all in values that have been acknowledged as truths in the shared 3D matrix that shared feeling gives its it feeling that its real for those in it

a clock is just a clock and might just as well be seen as some engine of toy mechanism it does not relate to what time actually is
a clock is a duality based science concept