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  #1  
Old 04-04-2020, 02:57 PM
AgarthaZen11 AgarthaZen11 is offline
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MEANING OF THE PHRASE “ATMAN-BRAHMAN”

MEANING OF THE PHRASE “ATMAN-BRAHMAN”

The Upanishads proclaim that “Atman is Brahman.” Atman refers to the ‘individual soul’ of all living things and that which is immortal, unlike the body. Brahman is the supreme soul or the ‘cosmic soul,’ the life source of all that exists in the universe. So, the phrase “Atman is Brahman” wonderfully implies that the individual soul – you and me – are part of the cosmic soul. This is also the basis of Ralph Waldo Emerson’s essay entitled ‘Over-Soul’ (1841) and other similar Transcendental writings in Western Literature.~~Unknown
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Old 05-04-2020, 03:47 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Originally Posted by AgarthaZen11
MEANING OF THE PHRASE “ATMAN-BRAHMAN”

The Upanishads proclaim that “Atman is Brahman.” Atman refers to the ‘individual soul’ of all living things and that which is immortal, unlike the body. Brahman is the supreme soul or the ‘cosmic soul,’ the life source of all that exists in the universe. So, the phrase “Atman is Brahman” wonderfully implies that the individual soul – you and me – are part of the cosmic soul. This is also the basis of Ralph Waldo Emerson’s essay entitled ‘Over-Soul’ (1841) and other similar Transcendental writings in Western Literature.~~Unknown
Namaste.

It is very synchronous and fortuitous that you mention Ralph Waldo Emerson this day.

In a post I made in response to another thread about the nature of Maya (illusion) which I posted yesterday, I had the choice of posting "Dream Within A Dream" by Edgar Allen Poe or "Brahma" by Ralph Waldo Emerson...I chose the former, so I now take this opportunity of posting the latter:

Brahma

BY RALPH WALDO EMERSON

If the red slayer think he slays,
Or if the slain think he is slain,
They know not well the subtle ways
I keep, and pass, and turn again.

Far or forgot to me is near;
Shadow and sunlight are the same;
The vanished gods to me appear;
And one to me are shame and fame.

They reckon ill who leave me out;
When me they fly, I am the wings;
I am the doubter and the doubt,
I am the hymn the Brahmin sings.

The strong gods pine for my abode,
And pine in vain the sacred Seven;
But thou, meek lover of the good!
Find me, and turn thy back on heaven.

Anyway...as a student of Advaita Vedanta, it is easy for the mind to become confused with all of these hierarchical attributions and divisions regarding the nature of Self...until the realization of such is to be had for oneself!

For example, there is the term "Atman" which loosely approximates to "Soul" and then, there is "Paramatman" which thus approximates to "Oversoul"...however, if (and indeed AS) Atman and Paramatman are one in the same thing, why does the distinction or Duality exist between such in the first place? I also thought that the embodied soul was known as "Jiva" and not "Atman" anyway...however, the scholars chose to circumvent all that confusion by just calling the whole thing "Jivatman" so there wouldn't be any confusion.... didn't work. LOL

The same thing applies to Brahman vs Parabrahman...hey, if Brahman alone exists, then why differentiate Brahman into "imminent" and "transcendent" Brahman? The same thing goes for Shiva vs Sadashiva...Vishnu vs Narayana...all of that stuff just does my head in... honestly!

In the attempt to teach Non Duality through Duality, every point made becomes absurdly irrelevant and yet, the delineations still exist...within vs without...higher vs lower... embodied vs disembodied...and on and on it goes...just like that.

Now, I am a Hindu with a very good grasp on the Vedas and on Sruti...I can read and write Sanskrit, however if there is ONE thing that I fail to understand about my own religion, it is what I have mentioned above...so maybe yourself or another person would care to explain all of this to me and I await and anticipate any and all responses on the above matters. Thank you.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:30 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

Excellent post as always, Shivani!

Good question you’ve raised. Rather than framing a conjectural response, I think I’ll ask a friend who these days has been blessed to be frequently granted audience by Shiv and Paramshiv both.

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  #4  
Old 05-04-2020, 03:32 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Hi SD,

I think that what you are referring to has something to do with the more differentiated or less differentiated aspects of these 'identities'.

As these identities manifest on descending planes they are essentially the same
but take on attributes that are native to those planes - differentiation being one.

For instance, Atman is undifferentiated, jivatman is essentially the same but differentiated.

The same applies to levels of purusha.

I would recommend Sri Aurobindo's, "The Life Divine", and in particular his descriptions regarding Over-mind vs Super-mind.



For your convenience here, just scroll down to Vol 21-22 after linking.

https://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/s...o/writings.php


~ J

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  #5  
Old 06-04-2020, 01:26 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Hi SD,

I think that what you are referring to has something to do with the more differentiated or less differentiated aspects of these 'identities'.

As these identities manifest on descending planes they are essentially the same
but take on attributes that are native to those planes - differentiation being one.

For instance, Atman is undifferentiated, jivatman is essentially the same but differentiated.

The same applies to levels of purusha.

I would recommend Sri Aurobindo's, "The Life Divine", and in particular his descriptions regarding Over-mind vs Super-mind.



For your convenience here, just scroll down to Vol 21-22 after linking.

https://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/s...o/writings.php


~ J

Namaste and thanks Jyotir.

I have never read anything by Sri Aurobindo before...about time I looked into it and gave that Master some of my devoted time.

Also, coming from a background in Raja Yoga, the closest I could ever approximate that qualified differential to, was through the lens and terms of Saguna vs Nirguna or differentiated vs undifferentiated itself and respectively.

However, maybe my error arises from understanding Brahman (if Brahman could ever BE 'understood') as being mutually exclusive in respect to Duality, instead of unilaterally inclusive in respect to multiplicity.

Yes, this applies to the levels of Purusha in its descent through Spanda and into Prakriti, while still remaining as Purusha and then every attempt to explain it only seems to unnecessarily complicate that unity into the multiplicity when all I can ever think about is "well, if you are going to do THAT, why just stop at Duality as being placed in a Dual juxtaposition to Non Duality then?"

However in my travels today, I am starting to come to terms with an aspect of differentiation that I have always had problems understanding..that being the Form within Formless as being either equatable or distinct from the Formless within Form...aka Rupa-Arupa-Rupa:

https://www.academia.edu/10267078/Ru...e_Architecture

In other words, when does foresight become hindsight and why does my brain hurt? LOL

I will read Sri Aurobindo's book though...good thing to do during quarantine..
Thanks again, my dear friend.

Thanks also to Unseeking Seeker and I look forward to reading what your friend has to say as well.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2020, 01:50 PM
ShivLok ShivLok is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 22
 
Hello Shivani Devi ji and all fellow seekers,

As prompted by my friend, Unseeking Seeker, I would like to share my following ongoing experience, in my journey of Quest to know the Truth:

“Before I start, let me give a small introduction about my background which is important to understand before the Revelation by the Greatest Guru Shiva himself, whom is know as my Guru and He, like gently revealing to a child, carefully unfolded step by step, His True self and finally revealed the Truth of Parm- Brahm or Parm-Shiv.

I had one of the toughest life journey with cruel parents who not only discriminated against me amongst 4 of their children, robbed me, ridiculed me every where ( even before my grown up children); and then in 2001, when I was diagnosed with leukaemia, they refused to support in any way. And in 2015, dragged me to court on frivolous charges while I was undergoing Chemo due to remission of disease.
But positive part is : That Shiva was always there giving me strength and when I was about to lose my mental balance or confidence, He appeared in my dream, very vividly told me that He knows what I am going through and hinted that I should remember that I will face more problems but He will always be my side as I am His son. This whole divine experience lasted almost 20 minutes , at 0530 hrs AM in 1997.

Secondly I have been blessed with a beautiful loving wife with most pure heart , for past 37 years and my kids are well settled.

Now during all these years, I lost my will to live due to my disease which confined me to a room since 2012, due to immunity issues. And besides tremendous pain — physical and mental— and no freedom to lead a normal life.

In these days of extreme gloom when I was praying, crying, pleading with Shiva for death, He sent me a Guide or mentor or Guru, Vijay Mehra (a member on SF), like sunshine in my those darkest days. He guided me and though various PLR sessions made me see that : I choose this birth my self with Soul- Contract to cleanse all my karmic debts particularly with my parents and also pain associated with leukaemia was also part of this Contract. Albeit it gave me lot of solace but frequently I would feel very depressed, confined in a room, with regular visits to hospital while life was passing by with no end in sight, with extremely low energy. Even I thought of suicide at one stage.

Then in early July 2019, during my gloomiest period of despondency , Vijay ji one day did a Shakipath on my tormented soul. He now says with perfect humility that he was directed by his Messenger from Supreme self strongly to remove the veil which was between my soul and Shiva.

And in that Shakti Path session of about 45 minutes, my life changed forever. I saw Shiva in full divine form and I cried inconsolably before His smiling divine form. He reiterated and reassured and conveyed telepathically that “ I am His son and forget now all my troubles as now He will take over”. I felt melted in His divine presence and forgot all my pain and felt at peace and most humbly submitted ” That from this moment I totally, unconditionally surrender to your lotus feet, and I will no more crib or cry “. He blessed me and gradually faded back. But then my Spirit Guide came — but that is another experience.

After that divine experience, my whole life changed forever.

Initially I used to wake up at 0330 am , after 3-4 days or so , and as soon as I pray to Shiva, He would appear in Full form, smiling, alone but since past 3-4 months Parvati Maa, the Divine Mother or Shakti also appears with Him. Constant is their both Divine white light filling my whole body and repairing each cell, organ, bone and with their grace my health has improved tremendously with energy restored as so is positivity.

I can share these experiences spread over more than 50 sessions since then ( each session lasting about 45-60 minutes in which got lot of Inexplainable experience) besides my interaction with my spirit guide in which Shiva made me meet with my Twin-Flame or Soul-mate who is waiting for our union for past 500 years. But on that later, as I am penning those divine experiences in systematic journal form drawing my memory from recorded messages after each such session.

Regarding curiosity about Shiva and Parm Brahm, I will briefly explain what was revealed to me by Shiva-Shakti in various sessions in steady manner. And only in February 2020, Shiva-Parvati Maa revealed to me the Divine truth and made me meet Parm-Brahm in His pure Cosmic Egg Form or as some call Him Hrinyagrabh , but I call Him Parm-Shiv, in pure golden- light. And then Parm-Shiv revealed His ultimate truth through telepathy .

Basically, Parm-Shiv, the Supreme Lord, is without a beginning or an end but conveyed to me that He is revealing a small Form to me ( which i saw was about 1000 feet or more tall) in elongated egg shape, full of brightest of bright golden- white light but I could see energy waves going around in concentric circles , creating more of His Creations of life or Universes.

I saw Millions of souls coming out in form of fireflies, ie souls taking births ( He revealed me about various types of souls, which requires separate chapter ). And I saw many souls, like me, standing around Him , enjoying tremendous peace and hearing reverberating sound of AUM with other music. This experience can not be described in words.

I saw Parm-Brahm with Mahavishnu on His right and Shiva in Ardhnarishwar roop on His left, with silhouette of Brahma in His Heart.

He explained He i.e. Parm-Brahm or Parm-Shiv and is the Ultimate Truth and we all souls are His children.

Whereas Brahma-Vishnu- Shanker/ Mahesh/ shiv are His limbs through which He governs all His Kingdoms consisting of millions of Universes ( my Guru Shiva even made me see the structure of these millions of Universes last Thursday).

Another truth is that, on earth we see or visualise these Trinity Gods in our own Swaroop or human-form, but in other millions of other planets , where intelligent beings with different body shape exist, they worship these Trinity Gods in their own form.

I hope I am able to explain to satisfy your query.

But I must add, I have never read any Upanishad, Vedas or other scriptures except Gita and I am not bothered about it. Nor am interested to know about Chakras or kundalini, as I am enjoying my interaction with my Guru Shiva-Parvati Maa and in each of my session they give me lots of affection and shower their blessings. I have been told that I am a Shiva-Gana and went to Shiva- Loka with Their permission and met with my companions there.

Basically it’s culmination of my past karmas or Tapasya and more importantly my total surrender which has made me one of most luckiest person in direct communication with a Guru like Shiva and Parvati Maa.

Frankly this above knowledge is barely 20% of my soul journey.

May God be with you and like Vijay ji always says ”I see divine in you”.

God bless

Warmest regards
ShivLok
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  #7  
Old 06-04-2020, 02:08 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,847
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

an aspect of differentiation ..that being the Form within Formless as being either equatable or distinct from the Formless within Form...aka Rupa-Arupa-Rupa


Sri Aurobindo simplifies:

"God in all, all in God, all as God"

That pretty much covers everything.

~ J
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2020, 02:31 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgarthaZen11
Brahman is the supreme soul or the ‘cosmic soul,’ the life source of all that exists in the universe.
So, the phrase “Atman is Brahman” wonderfully implies that the individual soul – you and me – are part of the cosmic soul.

And your point is? LOL


Hi, ShivLok :)
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2020, 04:27 AM
ShivLok ShivLok is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 22
 
Hello. I read you’d post regularly and discusses with Unselling Seeker on your vast Spiritual experiences.):
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2020, 11:25 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivLok
Hello Shivani Devi ji and all fellow seekers,

As prompted by my friend, Unseeking Seeker, I would like to share my following ongoing experience, in my journey of Quest to know the Truth:

“Before I start, let me give a small introduction about my background which is important to understand before the Revelation by the Greatest Guru Shiva himself, whom is know as my Guru and He, like gently revealing to a child, carefully unfolded step by step, His True self and finally revealed the Truth of Parm- Brahm or Parm-Shiv.

I had one of the toughest life journey with cruel parents who not only discriminated against me amongst 4 of their children, robbed me, ridiculed me every where ( even before my grown up children); and then in 2001, when I was diagnosed with leukaemia, they refused to support in any way. And in 2015, dragged me to court on frivolous charges while I was undergoing Chemo due to remission of disease.
But positive part is : That Shiva was always there giving me strength and when I was about to lose my mental balance or confidence, He appeared in my dream, very vividly told me that He knows what I am going through and hinted that I should remember that I will face more problems but He will always be my side as I am His son. This whole divine experience lasted almost 20 minutes , at 0530 hrs AM in 1997.

Secondly I have been blessed with a beautiful loving wife with most pure heart , for past 37 years and my kids are well settled.

Now during all these years, I lost my will to live due to my disease which confined me to a room since 2012, due to immunity issues. And besides tremendous pain — physical and mental— and no freedom to lead a normal life.

In these days of extreme gloom when I was praying, crying, pleading with Shiva for death, He sent me a Guide or mentor or Guru, Vijay Mehra (a member on SF), like sunshine in my those darkest days. He guided me and though various PLR sessions made me see that : I choose this birth my self with Soul- Contract to cleanse all my karmic debts particularly with my parents and also pain associated with leukaemia was also part of this Contract. Albeit it gave me lot of solace but frequently I would feel very depressed, confined in a room, with regular visits to hospital while life was passing by with no end in sight, with extremely low energy. Even I thought of suicide at one stage.

Then in early July 2019, during my gloomiest period of despondency , Vijay ji one day did a Shakipath on my tormented soul. He now says with perfect humility that he was directed by his Messenger from Supreme self strongly to remove the veil which was between my soul and Shiva.

And in that Shakti Path session of about 45 minutes, my life changed forever. I saw Shiva in full divine form and I cried inconsolably before His smiling divine form. He reiterated and reassured and conveyed telepathically that “ I am His son and forget now all my troubles as now He will take over”. I felt melted in His divine presence and forgot all my pain and felt at peace and most humbly submitted ” That from this moment I totally, unconditionally surrender to your lotus feet, and I will no more crib or cry “. He blessed me and gradually faded back. But then my Spirit Guide came — but that is another experience.

After that divine experience, my whole life changed forever.

Initially I used to wake up at 0330 am , after 3-4 days or so , and as soon as I pray to Shiva, He would appear in Full form, smiling, alone but since past 3-4 months Parvati Maa, the Divine Mother or Shakti also appears with Him. Constant is their both Divine white light filling my whole body and repairing each cell, organ, bone and with their grace my health has improved tremendously with energy restored as so is positivity.

I can share these experiences spread over more than 50 sessions since then ( each session lasting about 45-60 minutes in which got lot of Inexplainable experience) besides my interaction with my spirit guide in which Shiva made me meet with my Twin-Flame or Soul-mate who is waiting for our union for past 500 years. But on that later, as I am penning those divine experiences in systematic journal form drawing my memory from recorded messages after each such session.

Regarding curiosity about Shiva and Parm Brahm, I will briefly explain what was revealed to me by Shiva-Shakti in various sessions in steady manner. And only in February 2020, Shiva-Parvati Maa revealed to me the Divine truth and made me meet Parm-Brahm in His pure Cosmic Egg Form or as some call Him Hrinyagrabh , but I call Him Parm-Shiv, in pure golden- light. And then Parm-Shiv revealed His ultimate truth through telepathy .

Basically, Parm-Shiv, the Supreme Lord, is without a beginning or an end but conveyed to me that He is revealing a small Form to me ( which i saw was about 1000 feet or more tall) in elongated egg shape, full of brightest of bright golden- white light but I could see energy waves going around in concentric circles , creating more of His Creations of life or Universes.

I saw Millions of souls coming out in form of fireflies, ie souls taking births ( He revealed me about various types of souls, which requires separate chapter ). And I saw many souls, like me, standing around Him , enjoying tremendous peace and hearing reverberating sound of AUM with other music. This experience can not be described in words.

I saw Parm-Brahm with Mahavishnu on His right and Shiva in Ardhnarishwar roop on His left, with silhouette of Brahma in His Heart.

He explained He i.e. Parm-Brahm or Parm-Shiv and is the Ultimate Truth and we all souls are His children.

Whereas Brahma-Vishnu- Shanker/ Mahesh/ shiv are His limbs through which He governs all His Kingdoms consisting of millions of Universes ( my Guru Shiva even made me see the structure of these millions of Universes last Thursday).

Another truth is that, on earth we see or visualise these Trinity Gods in our own Swaroop or human-form, but in other millions of other planets , where intelligent beings with different body shape exist, they worship these Trinity Gods in their own form.

I hope I am able to explain to satisfy your query.

But I must add, I have never read any Upanishad, Vedas or other scriptures except Gita and I am not bothered about it. Nor am interested to know about Chakras or kundalini, as I am enjoying my interaction with my Guru Shiva-Parvati Maa and in each of my session they give me lots of affection and shower their blessings. I have been told that I am a Shiva-Gana and went to Shiva- Loka with Their permission and met with my companions there.

Basically it’s culmination of my past karmas or Tapasya and more importantly my total surrender which has made me one of most luckiest person in direct communication with a Guru like Shiva and Parvati Maa.

Frankly this above knowledge is barely 20% of my soul journey.

May God be with you and like Vijay ji always says ”I see divine in you”.

God bless

Warmest regards
ShivLok
Namaste. That is an amazing story and thanks for sharing it. I hope you are doing much better now with your cancer and such.

Maybe you could send Lord Shiva my way again. It has been a very long time since I last had His Darshan, but nothing like you have just mentioned...only the usual "Bholenath" manifestation...then again, I see Lord Shiva more as a "friend" than as a "father".

I have also had visions or dreams where I was in Kailash with Lord Shiv and Maa Parvati...I haven't had one of those for years either.

I miss all of that stuff...but yeah, perhaps I am less open to it now than I used to be... Perhaps I just question everything too much now and I don't give my brain a rest for long enough anymore.

I get what you're saying though... especially in regards to Hiranyagarbha.

Nowdays, the Lord just gives me subtle "hints" mostly through YouTube recommendations...

I am in the middle of a beautiful translation of the Swabodhodaya-Mañjarī presented by Christopher Hareesh Wallis and I am starting to get it...with reference to the Bhavas and the Swabhavas...that is, becoming aware through one's own innate existence as the awareness itself.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EhfiRhrMJTY

I am half way through Sri Aurobindo's book as well..

....but yeah, next time you see Lord Shiva, ask Him if he could please stop being everywhere for long enough so that I can see Him in just one place again? Thanks and God bless you too.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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