Realizations and conclusions of the mind and beyond ..

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I think there can be many words used to describe similar things so there can be some leeway for sure.

I would say it depends on context as always, for some will say they are unidentified in reflection of their belief that no-one is here and that belief / premise falls apart when the moment they engage with normal life.

For folks to say they are unattached when they have more than they need just opens up a multitude of issues, you see on some t.v shows like American Pickers were people hoard loads of stuff, so much stuff that they can't move for lack of room in their houses and they find it difficult to let go of any of it ..

Many see this as attachment, and it stands to reason, some might equally say that they can hoard as much stuff or an obscene amount of money and not be attached to it ..

One might then question like I have, why do you have it then, why accumulate well beyond your needs and it doesn't even matter if they hoard all this stuff for other people for there will still be an attachment to the need ..

It really is transparent but as always peeps only see what they want to see .. and some like to pretend they are not attached just like the addicts who say they haven't a problem ..

It can be a very complexed situation when peeps are not honest with themselves ..

Even spiritual folks that get married are attached and identified even if their teachings say otherwise ..

Ask a spiritual teacher why there was the need to get married is all you have to ask ..

Why did you marry her and not her sister or her mother lol ..

Another good one is that one can be addicted / attached and have desires and yet associate them to the supposed false self and not the real self so it doesn't count ..

Which brings me to the reason of my thread in regards to realisations and conclusions .

It's all well and good peeps passing the buck onto their false self for instance so they can feel content with carrying on with having desires and addictions, but where has the realization and the conclusion come from that there is some form of entity that is false that is present .

It could equally be said that there is nothing false present at all and if your were a super duper guru type you wouldn't have any addictions anyway and you wouldn't live in a house full of belongings .

I implore peeps to just simply look at what is concluded and what is realized and see if you can see the difference/s .


x daz x

In the end, nothing matters and everything matters. Where ‘you sit in all this and live from is your choice. The surface nature of stuff and things, is choice. I have stuff but I know what’s important in me through my own realisations, so I choose as best as I can according to them.

You don’t realize yourself beyond mind and ‘not self’ and not understand yourself as a mind body , self. In the essence of ones true nature, you would understand yourself through the ‘whole’ and if you don’t then an open self aware plugged in being, will soon realize if they become aware this way.

We all play our part as unique people. Not everything in this world makes sense to those some place else, trying to make sense.

Understanding sometimes doesn’t require knowing, or why people choose as they do, just being aware is often the understanding.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Why is the banana skin no longer part of the banana just because it has been peeled .

The fruit and the skin is what makes the banana a banana ..

If Joe lost a finger in an accident, then say you met him 10 years later for lunch, you would not say that the long gone finger was still a part of Joe. If Joe lost all his hair and was bald, you would not say the missing hair was still a part of Joe.

Originally Posted by God-Like

As mentioned above one concludes what they do about themselves due to how they perceive themselves .

You have illustrated this yourself by saying you are just this little awareness in this body ..

How have you concluded this? By what means? Having a thought of oneself?

A thought that doesn't belong to you?

x daz x

My thoughts do belong to me. They are things I have and experience. But they are not me. How have I concluded this? Because I can perceive thoughts coming and going, always changing, but me, that observes this, that is aware of this, does not change. I am always me, always the same.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I have a body, I have thoughts. I can feel my body, my senses, I can be aware of my emotions, my thoughts. They are all mine, but they are not me. I have a car. I can drive it, smell it, touch it, think about it, experience various things through owning and using it, but it is not me.

My thoughts are mine. They belong to me. They are a product of the body I inhabit and experience. They are one more thing I experience. But I am not what I experience. Experiences are always changing, my thoughts and emotions come and go. but I do not. I am the awareness that is aware of all of this, that experiences it all.

Why do you have a battle with food and the body and your thoughts that belong to you .

no-one has implied that what you are in entirety is thought, mind, body just to be clear ..


So when you say 'they are all mine, but they are not me' what is this 'me' that you are aware of that pertains to no mind or body or thought .

You see, you have to have a comparison in mind to know that something is not me .

This is why when peeps say that there is a false self floating about addicted to beer that is not the real self, then where is this real self that is not addicted to beer?

For some they would say the real self or the real Self is all that is or is beyond the mind-body, it is pure awareness empty of thought .

So what we have is an awareness of beyond beer, beyond the thought of beer and body and mind and somehow there is the conclusion or the realization that the beer drinker is addicted not the real I AM ..

Well you need the beer drinker of the mind to conclude that there is a self to begin with lol and despite the requirement for the comparison there is none ..

So how does one conclude what they do .. Where is your comparison for a self that has nothing to do with mind-body?

is it an awareness of what you are that has no thought or awareness of them?

It's exactly my point in making regarding all conclusions made, the dream world for example, well where is the real world then? Beyond the mind where the world doesn't even exist? Where no-one exists?


x daz x

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Why do you have a battle with food and the body and your thoughts that belong to you .

no-one has implied that what you are in entirety is thought, mind, body just to be clear ..


So when you say 'they are all mine, but they are not me' what is this 'me' that you are aware of that pertains to no mind or body or thought .

You see, you have to have a comparison in mind to know that something is not me .

This is why when peeps say that there is a false self floating about addicted to beer that is not the real self, then where is this real self that is not addicted to beer?

For some they would say the real self or the real Self is all that is or is beyond the mind-body, it is pure awareness empty of thought .

So what we have is an awareness of beyond beer, beyond the thought of beer and body and mind and somehow there is the conclusion or the realization that the beer drinker is addicted not the real I AM ..

Well you need the beer drinker of the mind to conclude that there is a self to begin with lol and despite the requirement for the comparison there is none ..

So how does one conclude what they do .. Where is your comparison for a self that has nothing to do with mind-body?

is it an awareness of what you are that has no thought or awareness of them?

It's exactly my point in making regarding all conclusions made, the dream world for example, well where is the real world then? Beyond the mind where the world doesn't even exist? Where no-one exists?


x daz x

Everything you imagine becomes ones creation, along with many other creations imagined and created as such. The dreams within dreams within dreams, infinitely poured out from the source of everything..in many ways we are the dreamers dreaming all this into being as the naming of it all and what we experience. Without name it’s just life. “Aliveness”..everything is alive and dancing in its own and others infinite flow of life. Is there a point where there is nothing? Maybe?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

In the end, nothing matters and everything matters. Where ‘you sit in all this and live from is your choice. The surface nature of stuff and things, is choice. I have stuff but I know what’s important in me through my own realisations, so I choose as best as I can according to them.

You don’t realize yourself beyond mind and ‘not self’ and not understand yourself as a mind body , self. In the essence of ones true nature, you would understand yourself through the ‘whole’ and if you don’t then an open self aware plugged in being, will soon realize if they become aware this way.

We all play our part as unique people. Not everything in this world makes sense to those some place else, trying to make sense.

Understanding sometimes doesn’t require knowing, or why people choose as they do, just being aware is often the understanding.

I agree, and as niz say's (just to emphasise I am not a guru / teacher basher) there are no right or wrong ways to see things, there is a favoured perspective had . This solely reflects where you are within yourself.

In the moment someone might find it matters to write a book and publish it, in the next moment it won't matter if any one reads it or not.

Your choosing as best as you can according to your realizations / conclusions is living life by example if you are true to yourself and this is the best self measure there is.

I don't know how you live your life in reflection of them that's your business as my business is mine unless I want to make my business a public concern in a way where I am teaching other's that what I say perhaps is an absolute truth and such like . I live by example in relation to mine also and I have the utmost respect for people that do.

As said before elsewhere when you get into teacher mode there lies responsibility to other's, it doesn't matter if you are a kindergarden teacher or a non duality teacher.

If I understand you correctly when you say ''You don’t realize yourself beyond mind and ‘not self’ and not understand yourself as a mind body''. Is exactly what I am saying about comparisons needed . You need to realize no self in order to know self, unfortunately there seems to be mixed understandings still post-realization, where one would say everything of the mind that relates to self is false or illusory whereas another would say the opposite or a little of both .

What one has to do in my eyes is be honest with how the information becomes them .

If it's just a favoured perspective had that only relates to the individual that perceives things in this way then that in itself is a good and honest teaching ..

When someone uses their perspective and say's that the world IS a dream and no-one is here as a bench mark for our reality, then it's worth questioning the validity of their realization of that or their conclusion of that ..

No good falling back on the bible or the scriptures in these instances, because they are equally questionable when we evaluate the nature of how information comes by ..


x daz x

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree, and as niz say's (just to emphasise I am not a guru / teacher basher) there are no right or wrong ways to see things, there is a favoured perspective had . This solely reflects where you are within yourself.

In the moment someone might find it matters to write a book and publish it, in the next moment it won't matter if any one reads it or not.

Your choosing as best as you can according to your realizations / conclusions is living life by example if you are true to yourself and this is the best self measure there is.

I don't know how you live your life in reflection of them that's your business as my business is mine unless I want to make my business a public concern in a way where I am teaching other's that what I say perhaps is an absolute truth and such like . I live by example in relation to mine also and I have the utmost respect for people that do.

As said before elsewhere when you get into teacher mode there lies responsibility to other's, it doesn't matter if you are a kindergarden teacher or a non duality teacher.

If I understand you correctly when you say ''You don’t realize yourself beyond mind and ‘not self’ and not understand yourself as a mind body''. Is exactly what I am saying about comparisons needed . You need to realize no self in order to know self, unfortunately there seems to be mixed understandings still post-realization, where one would say everything of the mind that relates to self is false or illusory whereas another would say the opposite or a little of both .

What one has to do in my eyes is be honest with how the information becomes them .

If it's just a favoured perspective had that only relates to the individual that perceives things in this way then that in itself is a good and honest teaching ..

When someone uses their perspective and say's that the world IS a dream and no-one is here as a bench mark for our reality, then it's worth questioning the validity of their realization of that or their conclusion of that ..

No good falling back on the bible or the scriptures in these instances, because they are equally questionable when we evaluate the nature of how information comes by ..


x daz x

How far one dives down the rabbit hole to discover the mysteries within life is entirely up to them. I reached a place of knowing myself, unearthing my true self. Through that process of becoming i nedddd comparison or all sides to form the whole awareness. To understand myself whole and complete. It was my way to heal, grow and become aware. What others gain through their way, what others see and teach, do and preach is as they know and are. It’s really only in my view of my own self realisation and my place amongst all life, to be the responsible one. What I see out there is an opportunity for me to be more consciously aware of life as myself and as life is.


I take in life, to source my own conclusions from within. It’s my internal world that is the being aware.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

How far one dives down the rabbit hole to discover the mysteries within life is entirely up to them. I reached a place of knowing myself, unearthing my true self. Through that process of becoming i nedddd comparison or all sides to form the whole awareness. To understand myself whole and complete. It was my way to heal, grow and become aware. What others gain through their way, what others see and teach, do and preach is as they know and are. It’s really only in my view of my own self realisation and my place amongst all life, to be the responsible one. What I see out there is an opportunity for me to be more consciously aware of life as myself and as life is.


I take in life, to source my own conclusions from within. It’s my internal world that is the being aware.

I understand and agree, tis a well balanced perception .

Out of curiosity while you are being more consciously aware of life as you are and as life is, do you get the impression that you are not real or that you have nothing to do with this world or the body ..

I ask because there are many takes on this even by so called teachers and guru's ..

Do you see something false regarding what you are of the mind body compared to what you are beyond it?

For myself I know what self refers to and what self doesn't, I know what that means in reflection of attachments and identity and ego .. but I don't see myself of the mind-body that can have preferences and attachments and such likes to be expressed through a false self or an illusory self .. I don't know about you but I am just aware that there are obviously differences to being aware of what I am am of the mind-body and being what I am beyond it ..

There was no realization that reflected that everything mindful therefore equates to an illusory dream world that entertains false selves and dream characters that just give the impression that someone is here .

I would challenge anyone who said that they had a Self realization that gave one that information 'directly' so to speak.

There are basic understandings immediately present the moment that one returns within self awareness, like what just happened was the realization of what you are, and there is only that which you are for example .. but when one starts to write books about the inner workings of reality and the universe then I would beg to differ that any of that was actually realized in the realization of what you are .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

If Joe lost a finger in an accident, then say you met him 10 years later for lunch, you would not say that the long gone finger was still a part of Joe. If Joe lost all his hair and was bald, you would not say the missing hair was still a part of Joe.

There isn't anything separate from what you are ..

You are coming from a position of isolating what you are into a specific field.

Your always going to point to this and that as not being what you are.

If you for example experienced a union of sorts with something that you perceived as not being 'you' then within the union of something else you would not be able to prise apart you from that other.

If there was was a painting of a bowl of fruit then from one perspective you could see each separate piece of fruit, but all fruit is of the same canvas. You can't separate the canvas from the banana or the pear ..

It's all about the point of awareness isn't it .

If this reality was all a dream then everything of the dream would reflect that. There would be no characters appearing as real folks and some appearing as holograms, for all would be of the dream .

Apply that analogy to there is only what you are.

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

My thoughts do belong to me. They are things I have and experience. But they are not me. How have I concluded this? Because I can perceive thoughts coming and going, always changing, but me, that observes this, that is aware of this, does not change. I am always me, always the same.

Again let me say I am not speaking about thoughts coming and going that reflect the entirety of what you are .

The self awareness that brings about your thoughtful conclusions are based upon thoughts that come and go ..

What is this 'me' that you talk about?

What is the comparison for this me that is beyond the mind-body?

Have you had a beyond mind comparison where you have the thought that this is me?

It's a contradicting question in itself just to emphasise what I mean ..



x daz x

[Jyotir]

Hi daz,

It is the instrumental consciousness that determines the reception of Truth, or cognitive limitation of it.

The most meaningful realizations are therefore those acquired by identification of the instrumental with the Essential, thus being able to 'see' truth by actually becoming that Truth. That is Self-realization.

And this is what various Yogas aim to accomplish in different ways.

The big problem for human beings is the predominance of mind as the prevailing instrumental consciousness. This is problematic because the nature of mind is inherently false, partial, separative, and limiting, and also why there is so much confusion and disagreement about a topic that is almost necessarily informed by that intrinsically unreliable instrument itself.

It's also why, as your OP suggests, mind has to be transcended as the instrument of cognition, by identification of higher principles within by virtue of a genuine spiritual aspiration, which leads to greater realization.


~ J

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi daz,

It is the instrumental consciousness that determines the reception of Truth, or cognitive limitation of it.

The most meaningful realizations are therefore those acquired by identification of the instrumental with the Essential, thus being able to 'see' truth by actually becoming that Truth. That is Self-realization.

And this is what various Yogas aim to accomplish in different ways.

The big problem for human beings is the predominance of mind as the prevailing instrumental consciousness. This is problematic because the nature of mind is inherently false, partial, separative, and limiting, and also why there is so much confusion and disagreement about a topic that is almost necessarily informed by that intrinsically unreliable instrument itself.

It's also why, as your OP suggests, mind has to be transcended as the instrument of cognition, by identification of higher principles within by virtue of a genuine spiritual aspiration, which leads to greater realization.


~ J

Hi J,

Always a pleasure to read your thoughts ..

When you say ''thus being able to 'see' truth by actually becoming that Truth. That is Self-realization''.

How does that apply so to speak when one then relates back to the mind-body ..

You see in my eyes Self realization is simply 'being what you are beyond the mind' and beyond the so called limitations of self / mind-body .

Of course we can only speak about Self realzation the moment we are able to speak about it when there is awareness of self again ..

Some say S.R. is simply seeing through the illusion of selfhood, I am sure there would not be the agreement of all that relates to what S.R. actually is and refers too . This is the craziness of it all isn't it, when one declares Truth over something else .

I do however understand your meaning in regards to being the Truth that you are (roughly translated) but one doesn't become the Truth that what you are of the mind is illusory or false .

That is a mindful conclusion that comes about from realizing that what you are is beyond the mind ..

Do you see what I mean ..

I have read enough quotes here and there to see master / teachers say both the world is illusory an unreal and then say that Self is real, therefore the world is real, (again roughly translated) .

I would say therefore that even thought there is Self realization had there can be differences in the interpretation when one regains self awareness of the mind.

I am hoping that you would agree with me in that beyond the mind, beyond the self, (Self realization) there are no thoughts, there are no words that pertain to self or reflect anything of the world, there are no thought that relates to the world being a dream because the world doesn't even exist within knowing awareness .

There are only mindful conclusions had when one starts to try and comprehend what is beyond understanding .

Now for myself this is the big banana skin when certain folk declare that the world is a dream world full of dream characters and such likes and make out it is the Truth, or a direct knowing that is reflecting within the realization itself.

That in itself is a false statement .


x daz x