Native American Spirituality – Wannabees, Frauds and Shamanism

[Little Creek77]

NAFPS by Al Carroll, has nothing to do Native American People or are they qualified to protect us. We do not need their protection or do we want it. They are all about something else. Mainly bullying and control. Like Trump, Al pulls others down to promote himself. That what NAFPS is all about. Best to ignore them.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by 1Eris

Native Americans hold onto a culture that Western Europe used to have but lost. I think part of our souls recognise the truth of Native American teachings and way of living without hurting the earth and it calls to us.

That statement (in bolded text) about Europeans is not exactly true.
Imo. the last Western hunter-gatherers up North have held onto the old ways the longest in Europe, hunter-gatherer practices and ‘beliefs’ still being relatively fresh in memory.

Something which I wrote about in this post:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...8&postcount=40

But I do agree with you that when Europeans have contact with (real) First Nations peoples or teachings, we can sometimes re-discover what has been buried, lost or repressed in our own cultures.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Little Creek77

NAFPS by Al Carroll, has nothing to do Native American People or are they qualified to protect us. We do not need their protection or do we want it. They are all about something else. Mainly bullying and control. Like Trump, Al pulls others down to promote himself. That what NAFPS is all about. Best to ignore them.

Then again the group does have a point as “cultural appropriation” is problematic and at times it can also be a cause for real concern.

For example – the only ‘Native American spirituality’ teacher I have heard of (with an ‘indian’ name) came to Oz having been invited here by a ‘Feral Community’.
He had taught some kind of a ‘Vision Quest’ and then he had held a ‘Sweatlodge Ceremony’, but because the Sweatlodge had been wayyyyy too overheated there had been real fears for the wellbeing and the safety of the participants.

Later I learned that this teacher had actually been Scottish!

Plus I assume that these European “Native American” spirituality teachers only reinforce stereotypes these hobbyists want to believe in, instead of offering any real information or knowledge.

[Little Creek77]

Fortune tellers, Psychics, UFO buffs, and New Age Shamans are no threat to my people, and I have to only laugh at them. "Cultural Appropriation" is just a gimmick NAFPS use to justify their bullying and name calling. I say buyer beware, when it comes to those Vision Quests, AND NAFPS.

[magdna]

"Fortune tellers, Psychics, UFO buffs, and New Age Shamans are no threat to my people, and I have to only laugh at them. "Cultural Appropriation" is just a gimmick NAFPS use to justify their bullying and name calling. I say buyer beware, when it comes to those Vision Quests, AND NAFPS."

I think cultural appropriation does bother you. That's fair. After being stripped of Native Spirituality and sent to schools that insisted on assimilation.. after the genocide of most of The Peoples... after being stripped of the right to be called human... after the land was ripped away and then raped and mutilated... it is understandable that there is anger and even hatred towards those who now consider it cool to act like a Native.

The Native People's are only one of many indigenous peoples that suffered this fate. In fact, all indigenous peoples were systematical eliminated all over the world when the holy roman church decided to kill off all the God's and become priest kings... God's on earth. All the God's. Much like the priest kings of Egypt they stripped all Sacredness from all Peoples... invented a non-effective boogey man god that only they could speak with... and that holds to this day.

Genocide of any and all who held any connection with Spirit.

Here is the problem. The Children of humanity are empty. Many are searching for Spirit. Truly searching. And, like the priest king/god's, there are many individuals and groups who have no problem selling them more emptiness in the name of The Sacred.

So, some appropriation is from the desperate need to re-connect with Spirit. Most is from the insatiable lust for power and money.

'New Age' ushered in a way to take that power and make that money.

False prophets, empty Ceremonies and Rituals, energy vortexes and giant crystals... all for sale.

Because Sacredness was stripped or hidden from the world, the world became indoctrinated into a false reality as an absolute... the Children can no longer See what is True, what is false. But, they can sense that Sacredness exists.

Why should you care? Because if you don't, the oppressed becomes the oppressor. All that sacrifice. All those lives lost. All the suffering. All for nothing. And Sacredness truly does die. Only dust will remain. Humanity will cease to be, all of us. Not just them. Or those. All.

"Fortune tellers, Psychics, UFO buffs, and New Age Shamans are no threat to my people, and I have to only laugh at them."

There is still a great battle raging for this earth... This Mother. Humanity. Sacredness. Which Warrior would you be? A Dog Soldier or a camp dog? Like it or not, we are all in this together. The time for revenge and ego are no more.

I'm just saying.

All Sacredness is free. When it ceases to be free, it ceases to be Sacredness.

If you can teach the Children... teach them. Strip the Ceremonies from the false prophets. Throw them back to the filth they climbed out of. Become more. Become better.

But these are just my opinions.

[Little Creek77]

Propaganda is what you posted. I do not fear fortune tellers. Organized Religion is all about social order and control. Propaganda is designed to control our thinking. The propaganda posted here, made the new agers look like lions, rather than the mice that they really are. Propaganda always exaggerates to hook one emotionally.

Stop and think for for yourself. It was not the new agers that committed those crimes, It was those who wanted to exploit and control people. If you do not like plastic shamans and fake sweat lodges then, do not purchase them, and they will go out buisness.

Psychological Warfare and Propaganda is made ot hook one emotionally. They both go for the emotions through exaggeration and misinformation. Think! Please think for yourself.

[Little Creek77]

"cultural appropriation" is a gimmick that is used in propaganda. Think past this hook. What really happened, is a thing called Money. It is money that separates us from the Earth, and I don't care who uses it, or makes it. We all borrow things and spiritual ideas form other people we associate with. Native American People did this for 1000s of years.That is only natural. Humans are adaptable. Propaganda causes fear, and uses that fear to control our thinking for the propaganda masters advantage.

[magdna]

Did you actually read my post? Thoughtfully? Or did you skim it with a standard reply already formulated in your mind?

Most of my post was my opinion on the 'why' European's and other wanted to emulate or appropriate Native American Culture. That is where this thread started. That was the original discussion.

"cultural appropriation" is a gimmick that is used in propaganda. Think past this hook."

If this is your opinion that is fine. If you are trying to convince me you have any idea what you are talking about, you lose.

"What really happened, is a thing called Money. It is money that separates us from the Earth, and I don't care who uses it, or makes it."

That is not "what really happened", that is what is happening now. To use propaganda to make money you have to have a audience. A need or want. The question of 'why' means starting at the beginning not jumping to the end. The question was 'why' were those who wanted to appropriate Native American culture. Not, where did this interest/want lead.

I answered that question of why in my post. First, The Children seeking Sacredness or Spirit. That was the beginning. Second -- people who would exploit that need.

"We all borrow things and spiritual ideas form other people we associate with. Native American People did this for 1000s of years.That is only natural."

I believe I covered that in posting the fact that Native Americans were only one of the many Indigenous Tribes world wide. All hold Sacredness, Ceremonies, Rituals of their own.

Native American Peoples may have shared Spiritual idea's for 1000's of years, but their Ceremonies are CLOSED. Even between Tribes. Throwing out a Spiritual 'idea' that someone might incorporate into their view of Spirit is very natural. Sharing Tribal truths are quite another. Please don't consider me stupid. What YOU have said here is propaganda. Standard mis-leading and very blanket statement.

"Propaganda is what you posted. I do not fear fortune tellers. Organized Religion is all about social order and control. Propaganda is designed to control our thinking. The propaganda posted here, made the new agers look like lions, rather than the mice that they really are. Propaganda always exaggerates to hook one emotionally."

I most certainly did not, in any way, shape or form... insinuate or suggest that you should be afraid. Just the opposite. I asked you what kind of Warrior you wanted to be. You are either a Warrior or you are not. Warriors fight the battles while everyone else talks about the battles or refuses to even acknowledge the battles. Those are your choices to make.

I also did not make new agers look like lions instead of the mice they really are. If I recall correctly I called them filth that needed to be returned to their place of origin. Of course, if no one stands up to them and their exploitation they will just continue to roll on the road, not because 'these people are fearful of us' but because 'Hey... no one cares.'

Caring does not mean fearing. Compassion does not mean weakness. A different view or opinion of an issue does not mean propaganda.

"Stop and think for for yourself. It was not the new agers that committed those crimes, It was those who wanted to exploit and control people."

Ever study any Paths or Spirituality other then 'my peoples'? Not 'know about' but study.

Do you have any idea what 'new-agers' are about? Their philosophy? Their Path? Their belief's? Where the Path started. Why The Path started. What the Path even is, if it exists. Ever visited Sedona or any of the other countless places new-agers congregate? I am betting not. I am betting that you are talking with authority about a thing you know very little about.

New-agers have every right to their Path. I have no problem with that... Unless and until they attempt to cross their path over mine.

You have every right to have an opinion on 'new age'. I will respect it as your truth. And respectfully reply that in my opinion you are clueless. And that it is you that needs to think for yourself.

"Psychological Warfare and Propaganda is made ot hook one emotionally. They both go for the emotions through exaggeration and misinformation. Think! Please think for yourself"

I would say that I am most certainly thinking for myself. Critically thinking for myself. The first bud of psychological warfare is insisting that Critical thinking is both unnecessary and exaggerated. Being emotional or caring about an issue involves critical thinking. Everyone isn't a fluffy bunny. But there are some who are vulnerable ... not because they have emotions, that is ludicrous. But because they are lost. Re-think your hook.

[sentient]

Ok. back to the why question.

A quote from a book called "Edge of the Sacred" by David Tacey:
Even though this book deals with the relationship between black and white Australians, imo. the same insights apply here.

What is needed is spiritual revolution in Euro Australian consciousness. We cannot merely tack an Aboriginal spirituality to our own overly-rational consciousness, but must change our consciousness from within by burrowing down into our feared and previously walled-in unconscious in order to find, or create, an answering image to Aboriginal spirituality.
The direction we need to take is downward, into our own depths, to see what could be happening there, rather than to remain the same and move sideways appropriating another culture's dreaming.
Jung wrote that "People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own souls". It is far easier, he said, to take on spirituality of a foreign culture, to wrap our nakedness in the wondrous trappings of an exotic cosmology, than it is to face the apparent poverty of our own souls and begin a real dialogue with the unconscious inner life of which we are at present oblivious.

[Little Creek77]

The following quotes are from your above reply:

1. If you are trying to convince me you have any idea what you are talking about, you lose.

2. Please don't consider me stupid. What YOU have said here is propaganda. Standard mis-leading and very blanket statement.

3. Ever visited Sedona or any of the other countless places new-agers congregate? I am betting not. I am betting that you are talking with authority about a thing you know very little about

4. And respectfully reply that in my opinion you are clueless.

I will start here: Native American Peoples may have shared Spiritual idea's for 1000's of years, but their Ceremonies are CLOSED. Even between Tribes. Throwing out a Spiritual 'idea' that someone might incorporate into their view of Spirit is very natural. Sharing Tribal truths are quite another. Please don't consider me stupid. What YOU have said here is propaganda. Standard mis-leading and very blanket statement.

The above paragraph is just common misinformation and assumption. This is and was not entirely true. Have you ever experienced a "Native American Ceremonie", not by white people but by natives themselves? To be accurate, you are going to have to describe what "Ceremonies" you are talking about. "Tribal Truth" was shared, but of course, you are going to have to tell me what "Truths" you are talking about.

On Sedona. I live in AZ and I been to Sedona MANY times, visited the book stores and even took a Pink Jeep Tour. I have even photographed the medicine wheels there. Thus I have a good knowledge about "New Age".

I am going to ignore those "You" accusations. I am not sure they are allowed in this forum. They are used to invalidate the opinion, when there a lack of knowledge about it.