The Distinction Principle

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by amy green

What I find peculiar is if we are all one, why is judgement so taboo? This is an accepted form of conditioning that is inconsistent as I see it.

This is my thinking on this situation. I criticise myself (e.g. when I think I could have done things better) yet we are not supposed to judge others, since it is seen as duality??? However, if we are all one, i.e. others are extensions of ourselves, why is it not acceptable to extend judgement? I am not trying to encourage value judgements (notably, where there is disapproval) but, it would appear, we are not able to call a spade a spade e.g. discernment seems frowned upon. Keeping everything hazy/undefined can make reality look blurred.

Sorry Gem if this is slightly off track - although you may find this issue co-relates and interesting?

Here's my thinking: To accurately judge something, we need to be informed of ALL the factors involved. How can we do that? Who has access to ALL knowledge? Only "God" is in the proper position to judge.
Here's the thing: Judgement is a limitation. Judgement is a tool of "differentiation" and as such it separates things. "Wholeness" is the state of health, and that is hard to find while we whittle ourselves down into tinier fragments. Think of the teacher Jesus, did he advocate "judgement"? He preached repentance from judging, he advocated forgiveness.

[Saggi]

Perhaps, it's just that we all started somewhere

Whatever the belief there is a starting point

Some call it the Big Bang, some the Source, some Evolution and that's the distinction

The differences stop life being boring

Love and hugs

Jo

XxXx

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

Here's my thinking: To accurately judge something, we need to be informed of ALL the factors involved. How can we do that? Who has access to ALL knowledge? Only "God" is in the proper position to judge.
Here's the thing: Judgement is a limitation. Judgement is a tool of "differentiation" and as such it separates things. "Wholeness" is the state of health, and that is hard to find while we whittle ourselves down into tinier fragments. Think of the teacher Jesus, did he advocate "judgement"? He preached repentance from judging, he advocated forgiveness.

Obviously to accurately judge something we'd need to know all the factors involved but this is idealistic, largely impractical and we don't operate on that basis do we? Do you know everything about toothpaste before you buy a tube of it? Of course not! If we observe that a child is bright/clever, do we need to have quizzed the mother sufficiently and looked at all the school reports? Ridiculous. Such assessments/assertions can be modified in the light of better information anyway. The taboo status of judgements seems largely to do with negative comments...even these can be positively channeled into constructive criticism.

Yes (yawn, here we go) judgement is seen as separation/duality. You haven't addressed the key point in my post i.e. how it is possible to judge/discern within the framework of 'we are all one'. To reiterate - since I criticise myself (e.g. where I could have done something better), if others are extensions of myself (in the 'we are all one' philosophy), how is this not O.K. then? Discerning something is not the same as a value judgement. Furthermore, not all value judgements are negative!

[Gem]

People assume we all started somewhere, and believe there's a journey to Godhead, then a dude like Psychoslice would say 'You're already there'.

Then they say it's all one, BUT, because we are mind and body whatsists we perceive things apart... sounds silly Hehehehe.

Mental constructs, but really, is there a one? I find there is clear distinction.... and the enlightened ones are always saying stuff like 'you are not your mind' (as if that even makes any sense)... maybe you are not what you think you are, you are a true self and a self image... but no matter what, there is always a distinction.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by amy green

Obviously to accurately judge something we'd need to know all the factors involved but this is idealistic, largely impractical and we don't operate on that basis do we? Do you know everything about toothpaste before you buy a tube of it? Of course not! If we observe that a child is bright/clever, do we need to have quizzed the mother sufficiently and looked at all the school reports? Ridiculous. Such assessments/assertions can be modified in the light of better information anyway. The taboo status of judgements seems largely to do with negative comments...even these can be positively channeled into constructive criticism.

Yes (yawn, here we go) judgement is seen as separation/duality. You haven't addressed the key point in my post i.e. how it is possible to judge/discern within the framework of 'we are all one'. To reiterate - since I criticise myself (e.g. where I could have done something better), if others are extensions of myself (in the 'we are all one' philosophy), how is this not O.K. then? Discerning something is not the same as a value judgement. Furthermore, not all value judgements are negative!

It doesn't require judgement to buy toothpaste.
It doesn't require judgement to ascertain cleverness.

Criticism, as you've described it, seems an attack.
What is the motivation behind the criticism?
Do you comfort yourself and assure yourself always
that you've always done the best you can?
Or do you nit-pick and scold yourself for not maintaining the standards you've held more dear than yourself??
Projecting that kind of criticism seems painful to me.
[I percieve it has such.]

Judgement, in and of itself, isn't bad.
What purpose it is set to determines that.

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

It doesn't require judgement to buy toothpaste.
It doesn't require judgement to ascertain cleverness.

Criticism, as you've described it, seems an attack.
What is the motivation behind the criticism?
Do you comfort yourself and assure yourself always
that you've always done the best you can?
Or do you nit-pick and scold yourself for not maintaining the standards you've held more dear than yourself??
Projecting that kind of criticism seems painful to me.
[I percieve it has such.]

Judgement, in and of itself, isn't bad.
What purpose it is set to determines that.

Buying toothpaste requires discernment, some form of judgement/making a decision e.g. oh I don't like that brand because...

Detecting cleverness in a child is making a judgement/an appraisal of their quality. If I said the child was shy would that be a judgement then, i.e. a negative one? Do you only understand judgement in terms of value judgements?

Well perhaps I used the wrong word i.e. criticism. Rest assured I have high self esteem but I am focused on improving myself so I do judge my behaviour if it falls short of my potential. So you still haven't addressed my main point about whether it is O.K to judge others if we view that we are all one, since this is seeing others as extensions of ourselves.
Perhaps someone else can answer this. I would really value a reply because I think it is an important point.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Gem

I reckon people are fond of the idea that all is one, but then they can tell things apart as well, so I don't know how that get that idea.

Some claim our transition from hunter gatherers to what we are today is result of using psychedelic plants. Since then science has found things that suggest everything is one. There's a lot more to it than just all is one, but the basic idea seems to have some validity. To me it means more understanding and relating to each other instead the walls we put up to separate ourselves.

Examples maybe we can all relate to come in the state of sleep. Those types of dreams where we are unselfconscious, and it's like we're just this kind of neutral witness to whatever is happening.
When there is no distinguishing feature to tell that it's 'me' or 'my' experience. There is a 'floatiness' and a panoramic quality to these types of dreams.

Originally Posted by amy green

... my main point about whether it is O.K to judge others if we view that we are all one, since this is seeing others as extensions of ourselves.[/u]
Perhaps someone else can answer this. I would really value a reply because I think it is an important point.

I don't know if I can answer satisfactorily, but I will add my take on it. I think it's a good question.

I'd say that others are extensions of the self, to the extent that we have knowledge of or relationship to the person or situation in question.

I can make a criticism of self most legitimately, because I know myself better than any other person knows me.
People in relationship may in certain situations find that they have to make a criticism, or communicate something that could be unpleasant if said in the wrong way. So I would say that criticism could be constructive where there is love as a foundation, and so the relationship can continue and grow. In the same way - and as you have pointed out - that when a person is making a self-criticism, ideally there is self-esteem(love) as a foundation.

As far as my understanding extends, It is only all One on a molecular/sub molecular basis, A Spade is comprised of Atoms, as Is the Coffee table, but you would look real strange digging the garden with a Coffee table.