The Illusion of Free Will.

[Xan]

SFF... In the old days here at SF there was a 5000 post thread on this subject. Some said they know there's no such thing as free will and gave good reasons to back up their position, as you have; some said there is, with equally good logic.

Unless we latch on to one belief or another, the question that's been by debated by philosophers for centuries is still open as far as I'm concerned.

In fact, my non-theoretical answer is... In this "reality of appearances", when it appears there's a free choice I may make I make one; when it appears there is no choice then there's that.


Xan

Originally Posted by Xan

SFF... In the old days here at SF there was a 5000 post thread on this subject. Some said they know there's no such things as free will and gave good reasons to back up their position as you have, some there said is with equally good logic.

Unless we latch on to one belief or another, the question that's been by debated by philosophers for centuries is still open as far as I'm concerned.

In fact, my non-theoretical answer is... In this "reality of appearances", when it appears there's a free choice I may make I make one; when it appears there is no choice then there's that.


Xan

Exactly.

Besides agreeing with Xan's earlier post, I will repeat my catch-clause that all beliefs hang from a chain of acceptances, anchored at the top to a leap of faith. How do we know we don't actually live in some 'matrix', and what we experience as reality is just a stream of electrical impulses injected into our mind by some massive machine?

I suppose if the conspiracy runs that deep, we can't know - but I will leap, and say no, there is a reality out there, even if we have to dig for it a little.

And though we do not have omnipotence, we do have free will - something in-between, as Xan says.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Humm

I always look at these philosophies as confessions of feelings of complete powerlessness by the authors.

I look at the common sense of powerlessness as the state of the vast majority who have not yet seen through and gotten free of their conditioning.

Once one's consciousness has expanded beyond the given programs, a whole new range of options and realities appears.


Xan

Originally Posted by Xan

I look at the common sense of powerlessness as the state of the vast majority who have not yet seen through and gotten free of their conditioning.

Once one's consciousness has expanded beyond the given programs, a whole range of options and realities appears.



Xan

This is true - and I believe sometimes we sense it from our subconscious without knowing the full scope, and then we form wild thoughts like 'we have NO free will'.

[Xan]

All you have to do, is see the truth of life. Once again, Go to TruthContest(dot)com and open The Present.

umm.... well... Rather than going to a website to see the Truth from someone's particular ideas and point of view, I prefer to go deeply into the actual Present... within and all around me... here, now.


Xan

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Gem

In the other sense if you were in the next room and I yelled out your name, with no choice involved at all, it comes to your attention.

Right. There's no choice about hearing it. But then what do you choose to do in response?


Xan

Originally Posted by amy green

Strawberry Fields Forever - have to say I strongly disagree with your determinist theory. Admittedly we have no control over where or how we were born (or, largely, how we are going to die) but you're confusing control with freewill. We may not be in control of the vehicle but we are free within that situation as to how we experience the ride.

You admit that we have choices but discount the quality of these by saying that they don't make any real difference. Oh but they SO do....! I used to be fatalistic (thinking I could do nothing about my lot, that this was just the way it is - I used to be prone to depression because of this) THEN I studied psychology (specifically, psychotherapy) and allowed myself to contemplate the possibility that freewill could be a reality. Hallelujah - I now have a positive mindset and yes, it makes the world of difference in how I experience life. O.K so I'll still die - but, if we're talking quality of life, I feel reborn, excited and inspired constantly. So how do you appraise that!? Discuss...!

The way you interpret your experiences is down to the way your mind is conditioned, You are confusing choice with "freewill", you have no "free will" in what choices you make, they are under complete control of your environment, and so is the way your mind is conditioned (personality, intelligence etc). The idea of free will is that you choose what ever choices you want. When that is clearly impossible because your CHOICE of the choices is completely influenced as well as the fact you have absolutely no control over what the choices are themselves. (where you are, what you are doing, etc - the chain of action;reactions that have been taking place throughout your life that lead you to where you are when these happenings occur)

[Xan]

Your body-mind is conditioned... your inner self, the pure aware being is not.

It all depends on which you recognize as 'me'.


Xan

Originally Posted by Xan

Right. There's no choice about hearing it. But then what do you choose to do in response?

You do whatever your environment allows you do. Which is still action;reaction and you are still under complete control of it. What you are, the being, is the observer, your physical body and mind is the medium of these action;reactions that you partake in. You are not your mind, your mind is simply a tool, a sixth sense.

And yes i do know there is a Spirit/Soul/Consciousness in each of us. Our bodies are mortal containers.

If you take away everything that is physical (matter/energy), you’re left with nothing (no thing). Nothing is completely empty space, absolute cold, silence and darkness. “Nothing” is infinite, eternal and indestructible. It does not move. It does not have to; it is already everywhere. The universe is more than 99.9999999% empty space. Even our own bodies are mostly empty space. All physical things are because atoms are mostly empty space. There is a small amount of energy like light and radio waves passing through the entire universe, but it is essentially an infinite void.

Our spirit is also like nothing. It is the so-called empty space between everything. The majority of everything is nothing, and it connects everything, everywhere. Our essential, immortal self or soul is like the blank sheet that physical life is written on, the darkness that gives light a place to shine, the silence that gives sound a place to be heard, an infinite stadium that the game of life is played in. Nothing is the complete opposite of what people think. It is impossible to get your mind around. All you can do is know it is true and be it.


- This is taken from The Present on truthcontest(dot)com. I am telling you to read so you can see where I am coming from when saying these things.

"umm.... well... Rather than going to a website to see the Truth from someone's particular ideas and point of view, I prefer to go deeply into the actual Present... within and all around me... here, now."

- That is a lie, You cannot go into the now through the mind. Without the truth, you will only experience the now at your moment of death, at the moment when you realize you are about to die, then when the fear and shock of your impending doom will bring you to the now, and you will not recognize it, and you will fear it. All beliefs go out the window, The mind dies before your consciousness leaves your body. That is why it is important to get fully into The Present before you die, To die to your mind self and be born to your spiritual-self. - Summarized From The Present on truthcontest(dot)com

You need to know the truth before you can do that, it is impossible to get into The Present with knowing the nature of nature, the eternal laws of the universe and the nature of the mind which distorts and hides this understanding from us with illusions/delusions/falsehoods.

Originally Posted by StrawberryFieldsForever

...- This is taken from The Present on truthcontest(dot)com. ...

Oh! Well then - it's gospel.