The Truth Trap.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

For one who has experienced this 'emptiness' (which is fullness within itself), your words make no sense to me in any cognitive way whatsoever....

My words are not meant to make any sense since there isn't any sense from the outset.

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

not that they are meant to make any sense mind you...and I can appreciate this too...but it's like me typing qwertyuiop[] in reply and expecting somebody to understand what I mean by that....it just doesn't happen that way.

whatever happens is just happening in your mind. there may be similarities happening in your mind and my mind since we both are human but never identical things will happen in our minds since we are individuals.

Accept that your ultimate truth is just your individual truth irrelevant for everybody else. But you may of course perceive yourself as the sole knower if this is conducive for you.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Ground

My words are not meant to make any sense since there isn't any sense from the outset.


whatever happens is just happening in your mind. there may be similarities happening in your mind and my mind since we both are human but never identical things will happen in our minds since we are individuals.

Accept that your ultimate truth is just your individual truth irrelevant for everybody else. But you may of course perceive yourself as the sole knower if this is conducive for you.

I can accept that my 'individual truth' is the 'ultimate truth'.

[self-realization]

The truth is that there is no truth. Even science has proven this. The human experience requires duality and as long as there is the appearance of an observer and an observed there will only be relativity. Truth can never exist in an illusory field of the mind. To find truth, you have to find what is real and as long there is awareness of anything, it cannot be real.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by self-realization

The truth is that there is no truth. Even science has proven this. The human experience requires duality and as long as there is the appearance of an observer and an observed there will only be relativity. Truth can never exist in an illusory field of the mind. To find truth, you have to find what is real and as long there is awareness of anything, it cannot be real.

You speak of the truth as being there is no truth, yet you go on to say 'to find truth' when if there is no truth, there's nothing to be found.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

I can accept that my 'individual truth' is the 'ultimate truth'.

The other way round: your 'ultimate truth' is nothing other than your 'individual truth'.
But of course ... every believer necessarily imputes a non-existent unconditioned to what is only conditioned. That is the mark of 'the truth trap' and/or belief.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Ground

The other way round: your 'ultimate truth' is nothing other than your 'individual truth'.
But of course ... every believer necessarily imputes a non-existent unconditioned to what is only conditioned. That is the mark of 'the truth trap' and/or belief.

...and yet, you still don't get it.

There is no 'other way round' in non-duality (which was the whole point I was trying to make with my rather 'tongue in cheek' reply there).

I give up.

*goes to meditate on Siva*

[Ground]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

...and yet, you still don't get it.

There is no 'other way round' in non-duality (which was the whole point I was trying to make with my rather 'tongue in cheek' reply there).

There is no non-duality in your dual speech as there is no ultimate truth in its being conditioned.

[Shivani Devi]

Why does this 'non-duality' forum exist, when anything that can be said about it, is not the truth?

To follow your line of reasoning, if there isn't any truth, there must be something which truth is not, which would be true nonetheless.

You speak of it being 'my truth' however, I would insist that the personal pronoun is removed entirely as I do not associate myself nor the ego with it.

We can go around in circles for days and get nowhere, however, I am growing tired of the intellectual ping-pong and I realise...not believe, but realise that the awareness of Brahman is different from the experience of it - even after no perspicacity remains.

Om Namah Shivaya

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by self-realization

The truth is that there is no truth. Even science has proven this. The human experience requires duality and as long as there is the appearance of an observer and an observed there will only be relativity. Truth can never exist in an illusory field of the mind. To find truth, you have to find what is real and as long there is awareness of anything, it cannot be real.

so in saying that you have made yourself a very real truth - that there is no truth- and thus negated your own words about there being no truth. Maybe it would help if you were jsut quiet for a while?

[Ground]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Why does this 'non-duality' forum exist, when anything that can be said about it, is not the truth?

It is a forum for believers in non-duality, those that take non-duality as if inherently, i.e. truely, existing.

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

To follow your line of reasoning, if there isn't any truth, there must be something which truth is not, which would be true nonetheless.

Language has the word 'truth' since humans are innately subject to truth habits which means they are innately conditioned to perceive phenomena as if they were truely existing.

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

You speak of it being 'my truth' however, I would insist that the personal pronoun is removed entirely as I do not associate myself nor the ego with it.

'your' in 'your truth' merely expresses that what you are imputing as truth is only the product of your individual conditioning. 'Truth' in conventional language however has the connotation of being independent of individual's imputation as if being inherently existing. But there isn't anything that inherently, i.e. truely and objectively, exists.

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

We can go around in circles for days and get nowhere, however, I am growing tired of the intellectual ping-pong and I realise...not believe, but realise that the awareness of Brahman is different from the experience of it - even after no perspicacity remains.

I am neither assuming nor expecting that you drop your belief in conditioned phenomena that arise only depending on your intuitive and conceptual imputations.