Understanding Each Other on a Fundamental Level- Question?

[eatember]

I wanted to put this in general beliefs because I think it could possibly intersect with different topics even though the narc/empath topic is where I noticed it first. I don't think it's specific to the narc/empath topic though, that's just what lead me to start thinking about it. When I was getting to the bottom of my own thoughts and feelings, I was also thinking about blips in communication I keep having with other people of the heal-y, help-y variety, however they identify spiritually.

I know these are deep and personal questions but I think they could really open a door on how we think in relation to each other about a really fundamental topic and help us understand each other better in what we believe.

For you and the way you see the world, what's the relationship between pain and suffering (I'm considering all pain and suffering one big category for the sake of this question. Emotional and physical. The stuff that you think and emotionally feel and also things that happen to you. Especially suffering inflicted by others. I personally think negativity in general can count in this category but it's okay if others disagree.) and inherent worth/goodness/identity/etc.?

Do you feel like your "self" lies with one thing or the other? Or maybe somewhere in-between? Or maybe with neither? What about other people's "selves"? Or their worth? Does either thing (suffering vs worth) mean anything about you? Do you feel like you have to keep them separate? What about other people, do they keep them separate and should they? Most importantly, how do you feel about the relationship between these two things, honestly? If you had to use words that were only words of emotions, how would you describe it? Are you standing between the two, fighting for what you believe? Are you wading in it, trying to figure yourself out? Fearlessly pushing through it, finding the line as you go? Is it something you have conviction about? Or maybe it's just something in the background of your life that you don't really think about?

What are you thinking/feeling when you're really genuinely hurt and/or dealing with others who are suffering?

[Dather12]

Originally Posted by eatember

Do you feel like your "self" lies with one thing or the other? Or maybe somewhere in-between? Or maybe with neither? What about other people's "selves"? Or their worth? Does either thing (suffering vs worth) mean anything about you? Do you feel like you have to keep them separate

Could you explain the perspectives a little more of suffering and worth?

[FallingLeaves]

one has nothing to do with the other... the point of suffering is more to enable the concept of 'freedom' than anything else and has nothing to do with inherent worth. Basically the cause of it all is the difference between what you have to do to take part in crowd think vs whatever you choose to do for yourself. You always want both but nonetheless find yourself torn between them.

again thoughts/feelings are more like clothes than anything else. We like wearing them but they aren't essential to the beings we are...

when I'm hurt, I know about silver linings and I know there is good reason to go through the hurt. But often, I still want others to salve my wounds. Not the smartest thing though...

as far as others the gulf between me and them is such that I can't really help either when they really are at their wits end and need help or when I think they might do better choosing the silver lining that I see presented to them. But I suppose it is just as well others get to go on without me; I suppose I would make a very good tyrant if left to my own devices lol! But I like not being able to interfere a lot better than I liked trying to fix things all the time even though it means I don't get control over much of anything sigh.

Several questions to try to answer here - probably because of the way I think (have developed)
Firstly - suffering emotional pain. It's about recovery to me, a mix of the danger of falling into self-pity, dwelling on emptiness following disappointment and being too ready to blame the entity for inflicting the pain. Well, yes, the person causing it may be to blame if in all honesty we did nothing to provoke it (including our demands of people/situations) but we have to blame ourselves if we make our recovery difficult.

As for beliefs - I've never been put under threat of punishment/sanction for my beliefs though a few have raised their brows when I speak of certain aspects. There are people of certain faiths whose Holy Book demands its followers expunge non believers but I've met a few following that faith who happily live alongside us non-followers as long as we don't deride their beliefs and customs...fine by me. We all believe what we've come to see as our model of creation, definition of soul, etc.

I think the best way to "understand" people (a weird way to describe it - I'd be happier with the word "appreciate") is to let them be themselves by touching as lightly as possible on their individuality. I believe that every interaction with others beyond simple transactions, broadens our insight into people generally (i.e. beyond just the individual encountered) but I'm always mindful that my "understanding" of people is a reflection of my personal experiences of people and life. Shrinks have tried to standardise this for ages with little success. And...it isn't always easy just to allow others' individuality just to flourish if there's some kind of threat or confidence trick in their approach. But even that is about seeing the signs; our accumulated experiences.

An interesting question but....understanding? I doubt one could ever understand another completely. We'd need them to trace their paths exactly with us hand in hand - and that's going to colour how they react to us, even if they're aware enough of how their paths developed. No one could understand me though they may recognise events and features that have contributed to where I am, my attitude, etc. I don't expect them to. I reckon I'm predictable and that seems to be enough for most people I meet.

[7luminaries]

It is possible to directly apprehend the intent, thoughts and emotions of others. To experience what they are experiencing in a direct sense. This is a huge aid in nurturing our compassion and empathy for others.
Some folks come by these skills more naturally and as we move into the Age of Aquarius, these things are becoming more transparent for all to see. Coming into the light or surfacing.

However it's one thing to read what's freely there. Probing to any extent is really only appropriate if you have discussed or sought permission directly from them in some fashion. For example, you are doing some healing or diagnostic work or have said you will do. Or...if it is someone very close to you with whom you share a close bond and may have extended "rights" to check, like with kids or partners or dear/beloved friends and close soul family.

The other thing is however, even if you apprehend their thoughts and feelings directly...it may not give you all the "whys". It depends. People are complex universes unto themselves. Much will still lie under the hood...the hood of the subconscious and of past lives, and/or perhaps of buried feelings or events from this lifetime. These require a much deeper level of healing and sharing, absolutely with the guides at many points. The guides will always act in the highest good of all so that all parties are cared for, even if at certain points one may be more vulnerable than another.

Suffice it to say that the dawning of the Age of Awareness, Transparency, and Communication is going to require huge amounts of human development, as a species, to process all this experiential stuff. It will seem overwhelming at times, until we better understand how to process it AND equally importantly, how to set our boundaries so we're not oozing rubbish stuff all over the place and projecting our stuff onto everyone. Most of all...it will require a whole new level of ownership and integrity in our actions, something many thought could be done away with entirely (LOL ), till the reality of interbeing and rising awareness began to dawn.

Peace & blessings
7L

Suffering = UGH thee emotion. Stems from ego.

Worth = YEAH thee emotion. True spiritual self awareness.

[Aethera]

Pain and suffering, I see are linked to one's beliefs as well as the perspective that we use to form how we see the world and understand other's, I think some is necessary, to genuinely learn cause without some we wouldn't grow and deepen our understanding which is what guides in our experiences and help us understand other's around us. Pain/suffering after you hold onto it for so long, it can become a baggage like weight, that can feel like a burden that weighs heavily on one, and can cause one to question their worth, cause the root to it hasn't been fully examined, cause of the lingering feeling, it's like a fresh wound that you don't want to touch and it tends to be that way until we decide to go to the root of it, from the root - understand and learn. See that the 'pain', no longer serves one. That and empaths I think are more susceptible to picking up on it, cause of their sensitivity to energy. I see the pain in the same way with negativity when you see it as something that no longer serves you. From understanding and gaining knowledge that lifts you from it.

I also think there is a line between genuine suffering and narcissists, cause narcissists are catalysts that do not want to be responsible for finding the root to their pain/suffering, and instead try to find as many ways as they can to displace that pain and try to pin it to someone else, cause choose to see themselves as a victim, and use that a way of opting out of 'responsibility', and thus use that as a way of ensuing more chaos/suffering onto other's and inflicting unnecessary pain onto other's, that do not see that they are a narcissist.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Aethera

I also think there is a line between genuine suffering and narcissists, cause narcissists are catalysts that do not want to be responsible for finding the root to their pain/suffering, and instead try to find as many ways as they can to displace that pain and try to pin it to someone else, cause choose to see themselves as a victim, and use that a way of opting out of 'responsibility', and thus use that as a way of ensuing more chaos/suffering onto other's and inflicting unnecessary pain onto other's, that do not see that they are a narcissist.

i used to believe that wholeheartedly... until I caught on that others would then use that belief to opt out of their OWN responsibility for things they are actually responsible for.

Now I'm more balanced.

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Suffering = UGH thee emotion. Stems from ego.

Worth = YEAH thee emotion. True spiritual self awareness.

I felt the need to explain a bit more.

Ego is often trying to use both worth and suffering to it's own end.
Being the observer in the NOW helps to end suffering.
Being aware of the true self that is born from Love/Light and being that in the NOW.

Living NOW in the body and connected to the source of Divine Love.
With the understanding that when this body is done it is
Divine Loves intent for me to return home.
So it brings big warm fuzzy hugs in the NOW.

[Aethera]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

i used to believe that wholeheartedly... until I caught on that others would then use that belief to opt out of their OWN responsibility for things they are actually responsible for.

Now I'm more balanced.

I see, but I was pointing out/distinguishing those that are actually narcissists that are using their own behavior with the victim mentality as an excuse and as a way to opt out of their own responsibility. (Not everyone does that, but I have seen people who are narcissists do that first hand on more than one occasion.)