Why does GOD exist?

[Miss Hepburn]

Thanks you 2.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Greenslade,

I do wonder at times just how much credit we give ourselves for knowing what we may know?

It seems credit to oneself by some gets twisted into somehow being against God or full of ego, when one "should" be humble. But, are we not of creation and is not creation credited towards "God"/Source/universe? So, how can giving credit to oneself be something seperated or against it? Just some thoughts here.

What is being formed into a reality? Servitude or unity with our spirit/God?

You see these are some of what has me throw my hands up and just step away.
I understand people are people and everyone has his/her own experiences and perspectives, but what do these form into the realty lived and perceived?

Seems such observations see there are contradictions in basic outlooks and in some circles "teachings" which make such questions as; Why does God exist?, almost a run around because some, so it comes off to me, are running around themselves.

Now this is just my view point at this time. Don't claim to know what it is all about for others. Just feel need to give this guy due credit and not look so far out there that what is here is overlooked or damned. For after all it is all unfolding right here, right now.

Ok, went off a little here and perhaps some of it is I have no answer for the question posed in which answers for anyone else but myself. Which seems to confirm what you present that it is based upon our reality. Also for me gets reformed with in my reality through natures and the universes reality. All intertwining and reflecting creation in motion, as I see it.

Interesting article and makes sense how the idea of God may have arose and be ingrained with human psyche. May also be in ancient times was more in touch with nature and so more in touch with its energy/Spirit.

Yes, can relate humans enjoy feeling a part of something. Religion plays a big role in this, as does other groups and the tribal mentality( desire to be part of) still seems to be an influence.

Not sure but I remember coming across something about the Egyptians coming up with a monolithic worship of (Sun) God.

The Spirits of old may still be honored in some small communities, but it seemed the monolithic idea of God has taken a stronger hold. Both, seem to reflect how one may relate to Spirit, Soul, and/or nature itself as well as as oneself or that mysterious/ethereal aspect.

For myself, there is a presence/energy there that keeps the place humming. It does sing it song and we add our own voice to it. It is existence itself and as been said just is.

Thank you for your insights and thoughts.

Hey there Moonglow


I came across a brilliant quote today - "There are two types of people in the world, there are those that want to know and those that want to believe." Knowing and believing are two very different things although it seems so many seem to confuse them. If we're giving ourselves credit, what are we giving ourselves credit for - knowing or believing? Apparently God is omnipotent, nascent and a long list of similar words so why are we having this conversation in the first place? Us being mere humans? Isn't that arrogance?


The real question is, if there is no separation as you're suggesting here then where does that put the discussion of what God is and we are not? Not only is it about giving ourselves credit, it's also about ego and hypocrisy.


I don't even bother throwing my hands up any more because it's just not worth even that much effort.


Your reality is defined by your perspective, your perspective is defined by your beliefs and your beliefs are defined by your definitions. So when you define God as being...... whatever.... then you reduce him to mere definitions in your reality while waxing lyrical about what he is.



"Why does God exist" is an ill-formed question at best. God is beyond causality so Why? is a dumb question, essentially, and it really doesn't seek wisdom. If God exists for a reason then he's not God any more because following human reasoning around God, if there's a reason for his existence he was created.


Twenty-six pages and counting, so many posts that wax technically, lyrically and poetically yet nobody has figured out what's really going on here. So many people want to jump on God's Spiritual gravy train, put on their metaphorical Sunday best and put their God worship on display. Two thousand-plus years later and we're still doing the same things.



In ancient times there was no God, and that's what many choose to forget. The idea of a supreme God originally came from Sumeria, and it's not clear if Abraham - who was a Pagan by the way and paid tithes to those who worshipped Pagan gods - adopted God from them or Zoroaster and his Ahura Mazda. Outside of the Abrahamic religions Gods were either real people or personifications that helped the people at the time come to some understanding of the metaphysical world.


The reasons God is so prevalent is not because he was popular, it was because the control mechanism that was instituted by Constantine in 350AD was spread through the whole of the Roman empire - and mostly by blood. Those who didn't believe in God were killed, tortured, burned at the stake..... This is the heritage that a belief in God is built on.


Even in these forums, that mentality survives today.


The rest is history and a bloody history at that. Non-believers were slaughtered wholesale and whole civilisations were wiped out across the globe as the -again - Roman Catholic church imposed its will. It wasn't until the Renaissance that the stranglehold was broken.


The Egyptians had a few different sects and religions going on over the years so a monotheistic religion based on Ra the sun god wouldn't surprise me. By the way, Christ consciousness comes from the Egyptian Gnostics. To the Egyptians though, their Gods were men of science and wisdom like Thoth and his compatriots, or the Pharaohs who were worshipped as Gods. Interestingly, the Egyptians had Thoth as a God while we have Eckhart Tolle. Isn't that cool?


There is nothing that is not Source, Moonglow, and granted God is synonymous with Source. So if you want to know God, take a look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Being clear is sometimes seen as arrogant by those still seeking.

Being bold and fearless is also seen as arrogance by those that
think being humble means being silent and weak...obscure and meek.

Just a thought after reading some things here.

"What you see in me is yours, what I see in you is mine." And it's as bad to take offence as it is to give it.


The bottom line is that sometimes people are just people, man.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there Moonglow


I came across a brilliant quote today - "There are two types of people in the world, there are those that want to know and those that want to believe." Knowing and believing are two very different things although it seems so many seem to confuse them. If we're giving ourselves credit, what are we giving ourselves credit for - knowing or believing? Apparently God is omnipotent, nascent and a long list of similar words so why are we having this conversation in the first place? Us being mere humans? Isn't that arrogance?


The real question is, if there is no separation as you're suggesting here then where does that put the discussion of what God is and we are not? Not only is it about giving ourselves credit, it's also about ego and hypocrisy.


I don't even bother throwing my hands up any more because it's just not worth even that much effort.


Your reality is defined by your perspective, your perspective is defined by your beliefs and your beliefs are defined by your definitions. So when you define God as being...... whatever.... then you reduce him to mere definitions in your reality while waxing lyrical about what he is.



"Why does God exist" is an ill-formed question at best. God is beyond causality so Why? is a dumb question, essentially, and it really doesn't seek wisdom. If God exists for a reason then he's not God any more because following human reasoning around God, if there's a reason for his existence he was created.


Twenty-six pages and counting, so many posts that wax technically, lyrically and poetically yet nobody has figured out what's really going on here. So many people want to jump on God's Spiritual gravy train, put on their metaphorical Sunday best and put their God worship on display. Two thousand-plus years later and we're still doing the same things.



In ancient times there was no God, and that's what many choose to forget. The idea of a supreme God originally came from Sumeria, and it's not clear if Abraham - who was a Pagan by the way and paid tithes to those who worshipped Pagan gods - adopted God from them or Zoroaster and his Ahura Mazda. Outside of the Abrahamic religions Gods were either real people or personifications that helped the people at the time come to some understanding of the metaphysical world.


The reasons God is so prevalent is not because he was popular, it was because the control mechanism that was instituted by Constantine in 350AD was spread through the whole of the Roman empire - and mostly by blood. Those who didn't believe in God were killed, tortured, burned at the stake..... This is the heritage that a belief in God is built on.


Even in these forums, that mentality survives today.


The rest is history and a bloody history at that. Non-believers were slaughtered wholesale and whole civilisations were wiped out across the globe as the -again - Roman Catholic church imposed its will. It wasn't until the Renaissance that the stranglehold was broken.


The Egyptians had a few different sects and religions going on over the years so a monotheistic religion based on Ra the sun god wouldn't surprise me. By the way, Christ consciousness comes from the Egyptian Gnostics. To the Egyptians though, their Gods were men of science and wisdom like Thoth and his compatriots, or the Pharaohs who were worshipped as Gods. Interestingly, the Egyptians had Thoth as a God while we have Eckhart Tolle. Isn't that cool?


There is nothing that is not Source, Moonglow, and granted God is synonymous with Source. So if you want to know God, take a look in the mirror.

Namaste:

There are three types of people in the world...those who associate "God" with Religion, those who associate "God" with their own spirituality/Asension and if that just so happens to "coincide" with an established Religion, well and good...and those who still think that to 'know' is to 'believe'....so they don't do either.

God/Source/Brahman, whatever the limited tongue can speak, the mind can think and even the heart can feel, only just touches it...kissing it briefly and then one drinks from the Soma.

About "believing" and "knowing"...that is more of a mental construct...an attempt to try and pigeonhole a total "unknowable factor" into existence.

There is more that accompanies "believing" and "knowing" because that is the easy part (NOT the 'Heart Part'), because TRUST, LOVE, FAITH and SURRENDER comes after that, and also, whether or not we have faith in OURSELVES (who can/not be "God" on any given day).

I don't give myself any "credit" for anything really and my counselor says that I should feel "proud" and have "goals" and "SMART Targets" and "attachments" all of that yukky stuff...thing is, I really don't need them.

Of course I can only know what I "know"...but I always feel that luminous hand just above my head, guiding me every step of the way...AND He just asked me to go back and highlight those four words.

Aum Mane Padme Hum
Aum Namah Shivaya
Namaste.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there Moonglow


I came across a brilliant quote today - "There are two types of people in the world, there are those that want to know and those that want to believe." Knowing and believing are two very different things although it seems so many seem to confuse them. If we're giving ourselves credit, what are we giving ourselves credit for - knowing or believing? Apparently God is omnipotent, nascent and a long list of similar words so why are we having this conversation in the first place? Us being mere humans? Isn't that arrogance?


The real question is, if there is no separation as you're suggesting here then where does that put the discussion of what God is and we are not? Not only is it about giving ourselves credit, it's also about ego and hypocrisy.


I don't even bother throwing my hands up any more because it's just not worth even that much effort.


Your reality is defined by your perspective, your perspective is defined by your beliefs and your beliefs are defined by your definitions. So when you define God as being...... whatever.... then you reduce him to mere definitions in your reality while waxing lyrical about what he is.



"Why does God exist" is an ill-formed question at best. God is beyond causality so Why? is a dumb question, essentially, and it really doesn't seek wisdom. If God exists for a reason then he's not God any more because following human reasoning around God, if there's a reason for his existence he was created.


Twenty-six pages and counting, so many posts that wax technically, lyrically and poetically yet nobody has figured out what's really going on here. So many people want to jump on God's Spiritual gravy train, put on their metaphorical Sunday best and put their God worship on display. Two thousand-plus years later and we're still doing the same things.



In ancient times there was no God, and that's what many choose to forget. The idea of a supreme God originally came from Sumeria, and it's not clear if Abraham - who was a Pagan by the way and paid tithes to those who worshipped Pagan gods - adopted God from them or Zoroaster and his Ahura Mazda. Outside of the Abrahamic religions Gods were either real people or personifications that helped the people at the time come to some understanding of the metaphysical world.


The reasons God is so prevalent is not because he was popular, it was because the control mechanism that was instituted by Constantine in 350AD was spread through the whole of the Roman empire - and mostly by blood. Those who didn't believe in God were killed, tortured, burned at the stake..... This is the heritage that a belief in God is built on.


Even in these forums, that mentality survives today.


The rest is history and a bloody history at that. Non-believers were slaughtered wholesale and whole civilisations were wiped out across the globe as the -again - Roman Catholic church imposed its will. It wasn't until the Renaissance that the stranglehold was broken.


The Egyptians had a few different sects and religions going on over the years so a monotheistic religion based on Ra the sun god wouldn't surprise me. By the way, Christ consciousness comes from the Egyptian Gnostics. To the Egyptians though, their Gods were men of science and wisdom like Thoth and his compatriots, or the Pharaohs who were worshipped as Gods. Interestingly, the Egyptians had Thoth as a God while we have Eckhart Tolle. Isn't that cool?


There is nothing that is not Source, Moonglow, and granted God is synonymous with Source. So if you want to know God, take a look in the mirror.

Hey Greenslade,

To believe can lead to knowing. For if one does not believe an experience has lead him/her closer or in touch with the spiritual aspect then would one even bother to look further or seek to know?

Yes, can agree that believing and knowing are two different things. In regards to God, well it can become a slippery slope if one holds fast to either one, IMO.
For there will be others who will scoff and even threaten another if what he/she believes and/or knows does not jive with the established belief.

Yes, not only Christianity, but other faiths history are littered with persecution, torture, and blood shed in the name of "God". Based on how the set powers determine(d) how "God" should be.

Which brings around my inquiry of what is being pointed to? Servitude or unity?
Constantine may have escalated the spread of Chritianity for the use, misuse of gaining power over the populace. Before him with in the long history of the Roman Empire, Christians early on were persecuted and killed in the Arenas.

History can be a bit of a twisted view of Humans in some ways.

There were Gods and Demi-Gods and then created one God. Some of this,what appears to me, as a bit of a duality seems more reflecting Humans then anything else. Yes, suppose some teachers/writers today would be regarded by some as being God like. Eckhart Tolle, lol. Some people are just wise and know. Suppose whoever one connects with, but they are still just human.

There seems two schools of thoughts, to worship and honor the divine/God and to connect with the divine/God. Seems two different thoughts going on here.

For I see churches, temples, and the like are suppose to be places to gather and give thanks and praise. Connection felt through communal interaction and service. Then there are "sacred" places to prey and meditate which as I understand brings deeper connection to God.

So yes all this does not bring an answer for all as to the why. When one feels the connection then the why isn't even a question, one just knows. Goes beyond the telling, the readings, the preaching. It is just there. It no longer trying to serve or appease, it is just there. Even the need to define it fades.
It's personal, man.

Yes, it is looking back at me in the mirror and it is reflected in living life.
What one makes of it, is his/her choice, understanding, wonder, idea, and knowing. It is how I learn and grow.
Sometimes opening to what may be possible can lead to amazing things. Sometimes one just knows what they know and can't explain it or feel has to.

So some of the posts here do seem to reflect a piece of us and does give reason to question for the person. Some of it seems to be just shooting the breeze.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste:

There are three types of people in the world...those who associate "God" with Religion, those who associate "God" with their own spirituality/Asension and if that just so happens to "coincide" with an established Religion, well and good...and those who still think that to 'know' is to 'believe'....so they don't do either.

God/Source/Brahman, whatever the limited tongue can speak, the mind can think and even the heart can feel, only just touches it...kissing it briefly and then one drinks from the Soma.

About "believing" and "knowing"...that is more of a mental construct...an attempt to try and pigeonhole a total "unknowable factor" into existence.

There is more that accompanies "believing" and "knowing" because that is the easy part (NOT the 'Heart Part'), because TRUST, LOVE, FAITH and SURRENDER comes after that, and also, whether or not we have faith in OURSELVES (who can/not be "God" on any given day).

I don't give myself any "credit" for anything really and my counselor says that I should feel "proud" and have "goals" and "SMART Targets" and "attachments" all of that yukky stuff...thing is, I really don't need them.

Of course I can only know what I "know"...but I always feel that luminous hand just above my head, guiding me every step of the way...AND He just asked me to go back and highlight those four words.

Aum Mane Padme Hum
Aum Namah Shivaya
Namaste.

Namaste Shivani


Back in my first Spiritual stumblings a very wise man said to me; "Take what resonates with you as your truth, leave the rest for it is not yours." That has stood me in good stead ever since and brings a certain vibrational alignment. There is a knowing beyond knowing, a lost 'art' of Spirituality that has been buried for centuries but it will make its revival come time. The ancients referred to it as Gnosis - essentially knowing without knowing how you know. It's not a process of the mind but -at least within my reality anyway - it happens 'above' the mind and is then 'filtered' down to be understood by the mind.


Sometimes we just need reminding that we are already conscious of it, and that we are the source of everything that is in our reality.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Namaste Shivani


Back in my first Spiritual stumblings a very wise man said to me; "Take what resonates with you as your truth, leave the rest for it is not yours." That has stood me in good stead ever since and brings a certain vibrational alignment. There is a knowing beyond knowing, a lost 'art' of Spirituality that has been buried for centuries but it will make its revival come time. The ancients referred to it as Gnosis - essentially knowing without knowing how you know. It's not a process of the mind but -at least within my reality anyway - it happens 'above' the mind and is then 'filtered' down to be understood by the mind.


Sometimes we just need reminding that we are already conscious of it, and that we are the source of everything that is in our reality.

I like that saying very much and I shall adopt it - thanks for the timely message.

As a side note, linguistically and phonetically, the word "Gnosis" is akin to the Sanskrit word Gnana or Jnana.

Many take Jnana to mean literally "physical knowledge" or knowing that you know...which was never the intention represented by the word...but until the revival happens, mankind will still be stuck in an egocentric mind trying to "learn all there is to KNOW"...without wanting to know what they don't already only think they know...and I have had a hard time explaining this over the past 24 hours.

[Ziusudra]

To every spiritual warrior...
Seeking the unknowns...

Happy New Year!

With wide open arms
Welcome 2019

Bring us joy, peace, and love
Around this earth
To every corner of this world

For all humans and all living creatures
Let there be
No more sadness, fear, and inhumanness...
Let there not be
Hunger, pain, loneliness, and suffering
Let there be
Healing, love, happiness, and harmony

Please please please ...
Let all children
From tiniest ones, new to this world
To blossoming young adults..
No matter whose or where they are
Be treasured, protected, and loved by all....

Let everyone in this forum
To be blesses with all their wishes and desires
As we celebrate this eve with our loved ones
Be safe and be joyful!!

At the end of the day...
It really doesn't matter
If we know the answers
Of spiritual unknowns...
Or the mystery of this multiverse
What matters are what we wish....
For love, peace, and......

[soulforce]

I can't say that I know why God exists, but then what would be the alternative that could be just as experiential?

I know people have their beliefs on God, but for me God is the Source of all. Since all things came from a single point in space. The single point in which all would emanate from, for all time, is God.

Is there something beyond that though? Maybe, but is it knowable to a human being?

Is God part of something bigger or is God the beginning and end of everything?

I personally make no judgement against anyone who has a perspective on the Creator. They're not wrong, they just see in parts.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hey Greenslade,

To believe can lead to knowing. For if one does not believe an experience has lead him/her closer or in touch with the spiritual aspect then would one even bother to look further or seek to know?

Yes, can agree that believing and knowing are two different things. In regards to God, well it can become a slippery slope if one holds fast to either one, IMO.
For there will be others who will scoff and even threaten another if what he/she believes and/or knows does not jive with the established belief.

Yes, not only Christianity, but other faiths history are littered with persecution, torture, and blood shed in the name of "God". Based on how the set powers determine(d) how "God" should be.

Which brings around my inquiry of what is being pointed to? Servitude or unity?
Constantine may have escalated the spread of Chritianity for the use, misuse of gaining power over the populace. Before him with in the long history of the Roman Empire, Christians early on were persecuted and killed in the Arenas.

History can be a bit of a twisted view of Humans in some ways.

There were Gods and Demi-Gods and then created one God. Some of this,what appears to me, as a bit of a duality seems more reflecting Humans then anything else. Yes, suppose some teachers/writers today would be regarded by some as being God like. Eckhart Tolle, lol. Some people are just wise and know. Suppose whoever one connects with, but they are still just human.

There seems two schools of thoughts, to worship and honor the divine/God and to connect with the divine/God. Seems two different thoughts going on here.

For I see churches, temples, and the like are suppose to be places to gather and give thanks and praise. Connection felt through communal interaction and service. Then there are "sacred" places to prey and meditate which as I understand brings deeper connection to God.

So yes all this does not bring an answer for all as to the why. When one feels the connection then the why isn't even a question, one just knows. Goes beyond the telling, the readings, the preaching. It is just there. It no longer trying to serve or appease, it is just there. Even the need to define it fades.
It's personal, man.

Yes, it is looking back at me in the mirror and it is reflected in living life.
What one makes of it, is his/her choice, understanding, wonder, idea, and knowing. It is how I learn and grow.
Sometimes opening to what may be possible can lead to amazing things. Sometimes one just knows what they know and can't explain it or feel has to.

So some of the posts here do seem to reflect a piece of us and does give reason to question for the person. Some of it seems to be just shooting the breeze.

Hey there Moonglow


Believing is a choice and sometimes it doesn't matter if someone knows or not because ignorance can play it's part too. Something can happen right in front of their eyes and they can choose not to believe it. Tangible evidence can be brought and they won't believe the evidence, yet they can believe on a fairy story because it suits their purposes. What you're talking about here has moved away from belief and has come into the realms of agenda.

What of the belief that all is Spirit, all is Source? In that case, what about the Spiritual aspects of any experience?

Regardless of beliefs there is always an 'us and them', there is always a reason to come into conflict. When you take away the trappings, people are just people. man.

The human mind needs something tangible to hang its hat on, and it has ever since the caveman days. Perhaps by way of 'As Above, So Below' animals and Gods became representations of the metaphysical forces around them. Originally snakes were seen as watchers of the earth by a number of cultures because they were close to the ground and could sense the vibrations. Birds sometimes had the same status as angels, the though that something/someone 'up there' was watching brought comfort to some. Perhaps the thought that their Loved Ones had risen to some higher plane of existence brought comfort. These things have been buried in the human psyche for millennia and are now very deeply ingrained. Today, God is giving our Loved Ones comfort.

How many movie stars do we have that are worshipped? How many music stars, social media celebrities......????? Is there status in putting Eckhart Tolle on a pedestal because he's a Spiritual guru and Spirituality is righteous, or is there so little difference in the pedestals after all?

When we're worshipping Jesus and completely missing the message? When we put all our faith, Love, hopes, dreams in God and not ourselves?

"I know what I know, what I don't know I don't know. What's the problem?"
Sadhguru